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What do you know about Tamuke?
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Kishi Kiyokazu
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PostPosted: 2013-09-02, 12:08    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

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Dear Kiku-san
I'm appriciate that you have read my reply.
Today I got more information on Tamuke.
The excellent shakuhachi researcher Mr.Kanda(Kayu)sent me an interesting letter.
As you know, he is the most learned researcher in Japan.
He informed me many articles on Tamuke, but I'm not good at Komuso repertories,so I'll write some sentenecs that I can understand.
following:
手向は伊勢・松阪の快道流の曲で、明治以降に作られた曲かと思います。
(快道流の)他の曲も短くて、気の利いた曲名がつけられていますね。
作った人は、角屋可好かもしれません。
高橋空山は 東海可泉から習ったとしています。
谷狂竹は 東海可遊としていますが、同一人物かどうか(同一人物と思いますが)
曙調子の曲で結構速く吹きますね。
(translated )
Tamuke is a repertory of Kaidou-school at Matsusaka in Ise.It seems that this musice was made after Meiji(1878~1912) period.
Other Kaidou-school repertories are mostly short and have tasteful names.
Tamuke's composer is possibly Kadoya Kakou.
He had written a book named [Take-no-siori]
http://dl.ndl.go.jp/search/searchResult?searchWord=尺八之栞
Takahashi Kuzan say that I learned Tamuke from 東海可泉。
Tani Kyochiku say that it's 東海可遊.
It's a question that 東海可泉 and 東海可遊is a same person.Perhaps that is a same personl
Tamuke is played in Akebono-choshi (tonica is A ) and in considerably fast.
The above is the gist of his letter.

I hope that my information is helpful.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-09-03, 00:31    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Considerably fast is an interesting statement.............
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No-sword
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PostPosted: 2013-09-03, 03:15    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

PSA: On this page, the "手向" (Tamuke) link in the Watazumi section is apparently supposed to be a 快道流 (Kaidou-school) recording. (The page maintainer himself seems a bit uncertain about this, and it's not clear where the information comes from exactly.)
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-09-04, 10:27    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Thank you all for your posts and help!!! It is very interesting!
Kishi san, would you be able to show me Kanda san's letter in full?
(I should ask Kanda san. He is really one of the most knowledgeable persons when it comes to shakuhachi history).
Also No-Sword, thank you for your answer. When I do get into this (this is so far pre-research state), I will make sure I share as much as I can with everybody. That is, after all, the the most important aim. Smile
If you have more comments, please just post them - also if you think something like "they know this.... it will not be so interesting". But truth is you never know where the most interesting lead is.
Okay
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Kishi Kiyokazu
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PostPosted: 2013-09-05, 14:34    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

 Dear Kiku-san ,
The topic on Tamuke is very interesting ,although it's not a musci piece of my  Kinko style.
You wrote:
Would you be able to show me Kanda san's letter in full?
Certainly I can.But there are some part that I can't understand or read ,because of my poor knowledge.
So when you send me a e-mail in person , I'll re-send e-mail with attached picture of his letter. Perhaps you know my e-mail address.
See you later.
      Kishi Kiyokazu (Japan)
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-10-21, 13:29    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

I forgot to write thank you to you, No-sword. I have a version in Watazumi's hand. It will be interesting to see the other versions... Smile
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2013-10-22, 07:10    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
Considerably fast is an interesting statement.............


The 1952 (?) recording of Watazumi's Tamuke is played at a pretty good clip for honkyoku: 2 minutes - 52 seconds
http://www.sepia.dti.ne.jp/shakuhachi/myouanryuu/myouanryuu.html
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-10-23, 02:54    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

That sounds like natural playing. But there were also time restrictions relating to 78's which changed people's performances regarding duration and speed. Shocked
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2013-10-24, 04:05    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
That sounds like natural playing. But there were also time restrictions relating to 78's which changed people's performances regarding duration and speed. Shocked


Which does make the case for the old Robert Johnson 78's that were speeded up (to make him sound more "peppy" too) — but Myoan pieces in the Taizan Ha tradition have a metered line, you don't stretch a note out a couple of beats just because you think it will sound good, you play the way everyone else plays and/or to the published score (which is the "way everyone else" plays). Listen to Yoshimura Fuan Shoshin. You might play the music at a slower tempo or a faster tempo, but the meter stays the same.

That well may have been Watazumi's standard tempo for his version of Tamuke.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-10-24, 04:53    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

I didn't mean duration of phrases, I meant of the speed. Sometimes they would just play faster........ Cool
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2013-10-24, 08:07    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
I didn't mean duration of phrases, I meant of the speed. Sometimes they would just play faster........ Cool


Right. The "speed" made no difference in this case. The duration of each phrase was the exact duration it was supposed to be. No problem. Just faster or slower.

But, as an aside, have you ever listened to Robert Johnson's recordings at the "appropropriate speed" like the way Eric Clapton recorded those same songs?

— Nothing "wrong" in the Meian tradition regarding how fast or slow someone played — although I'm certain that there were preferences.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-10-24, 08:58    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

Have not heard the Robt. Johnson at correct speed but I saw Clapton on his Robt. Johnson tour:

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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2013-10-25, 00:00    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke? Reply with quote

If I remember correctly from my lessons with Michael Gould, one plays Tamuke thinking of those who have gone before- particularly loved ones. Also there is a sense of remembrance of life as an abstract concept, and how fleeting it is.. pain struggle, gentleness, love, are all in Tamuke. I am not certain if I got this from Chikuzen or my own sense, but I also think in terms of those living who pass through samsara (wheel of becoming, birth and death).

I generally do not play this for public performance but only in certain circumstances. I do play this piece for recent passings, even for pets who have passed - I think of the Tibetan sense of bardo and rebirth - just in case Smile

For me the piece is about life-death - together. In the sense that you can not have one without the other.
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PostPosted: Today at 12:18    Post subject: What do you know about Tamuke?

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