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Why not to share what you make?
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-11-28, 19:32    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Yeah and not only beginners.... as you say beginners have he Playpen.... but for a long long time you are somewhere between a beginner and a pro.... so there shoul dbe space where everyone on their shakuhachi path can share to get comments in a safe environment.
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Plume Blanche
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PostPosted: 2013-11-28, 20:16    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

So be ! Very Happy
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-11-29, 09:07    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Ok, the end of dicussion is that here on the forum we keep it as it is: So

beginners post videos and sound files in the Playpen section to share and receive comments. It is a great thing to do!

Players who are no longer beginners, post videos in the Media Centre.

Soon when the new ESS website is up there will be a Members Area and a section called the Lounge. The idea is for members to share their recordings informally. So please become a member of the ESS and support ur work for shakuhachi in Europe and participate in the community! Okay
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felix martens
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PostPosted: 2013-11-29, 11:24    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Hi, Plume Blanche! There's enough space on this forum for everybody! Sometimes I love your experiments and sometimes I don't, but that shouldn't stop you. It's always interesting to hear someone else, and your stuff has become a normal sight on the forum. Perhaps you set an example and others may feel empowered to post their stuff. Sound cloud is another possibility but for beginners this forum is usually a first stop and to see experiments and sometimes not such perfect playing is a useful reminder that what you hear on CDs may not a true reflection of the instrument. My own playing is coming along and I enjoy some of the imperfections in my own efforts, but unlike you I'm not gutsy enough to put it out there! Some have expressed a view that they don't see the point of posting early efforts, but to me they represent a kindred soul, struggling along the rocky road. Yes, when you look back you might be surprised at where you came from with the shakuhachi, but you are setting a fine example to those of us still in the rudimentary stages. Let's face it, even those at the top of the tree should continue to think their playing is in need of improvement, such is the tantalising quality of the shakuhachi.
Keep posting, and don't apologise!!!
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Plume Blanche
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PostPosted: 2013-11-29, 20:13    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Hi, Felix !

Thank you very much for your kind comment, and for your thoughts on Shakuhachi.

But everything goes well Very Happy , I blame for nothing anybody, and I do not expect laudatory comments! Mr. Green

It was a personal questioning of my videos compared with those who are usually posted on the forum.
And I had said to myself that they maybe had no their place here.
The proposal of Kiku, lets me think that other persons will want to share what they make, and I am satisfied with it. Razz
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-11-30, 20:18    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Yes, I thought it would be good to encourage more people to post and share... an we could all get used to both giving and receiving constructive critique!
But if anyone is shy, then the members' area on the ESS website once it gets online! Okay
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Erin
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PostPosted: 2013-12-01, 06:47    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Cautiously, I too like Kiku's idea of having a type of 'playpen videos' area on this forum.

Shakuhachi is an amazing instrument and for many,it takes years of lessons and practice before being able to come close to accomplishing fundamentals necessary to play traditional music.

It seems like there are two types of players here: those that are professional musicians and have CD's of their playing to validate their skills and those who are still learning to play. For those still learning to play, the bar is set high by the pro's and often when a beginner/non pro innocently posts a sound file of their playing, there are few comments and the silence itself booms of criticism.

I record my playing in order to study the areas that need more attention in practice. I also some times record my playing in order to share it with a few close shakuhachi friends who I know I can trust to offer me a welcome balance of encouragement and critical feedback.

I would be reluctant to post on the forum generally given a comment I recall made, in the recent past, by a forum member who suggested that if a shakuhachi player can not yet play well they should refrain from cluttering the world with their crudely honed tones.

Perhaps within a well defined area of the forum, a video playpen so to speak, we would be safe to share sound files and discuss each others progress. As well, those whose ears quickly ache when listening to shakuhachi learners, would know to avoid this video playpen and thus spare themselves aural injury! Laughing
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JF Lagrost
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PostPosted: 2013-12-01, 12:54    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Erin,

You're right, and that's the reason why we created the Playpen : beginners can post here "with the excuse" to be beginners. Everyone starts as a beginner, even the best professionals. It is therefore quite legitimate they have a place to express "safe" and where comments will be benevolent and constructive. And I'm sure moderators will react if comments are too abrupts in this section.

So please, feel totally free to post your questions or videos in the Playpen !!

Kiku raises the problem of those who are "in between". We could create a sub-forum "intermediate students please post here." But I am not for the proliferation of sub-forums, especially if they tend to categorize shakuhachi players. The Media Centre is the place to post sound tracks, videos and photos for all members. Just keep in mind, if you post your own performance, that people are free to express their feelings about what they hear. That's normal, and it can help "intermediate students" (and also "pros" I think) to increase.
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Jam
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PostPosted: 2013-12-01, 15:16    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

I'm a little concerned that I may be the person Erin is referring to... I can sometimes come across a little blunt, it was never my intention to put people off from posting their videos on the forum! If it's the post I'm thinking of, I was questioning the validity of posting videos on YouTube after having only been playing a short while (the idea of watching myself play shakuhachi in the first months/year makes me cringe even now!) but after discussion I understand why people do it and I don't begrudge them!

I think the idea of a new video/recording section is a good one.
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JF Lagrost
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PostPosted: 2013-12-01, 15:59    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

What I would probably do as a beginner : post my video on Youtube but with a private link, and post this link in the Playpen.

What I suggest for shy persons : the Playpen is now visible by everybody, even if they're not registered as members of the Forum. I can make it visible only to Forum registered members (around 600 persons... instead of the whole world...)
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Erin
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PostPosted: 2013-12-02, 01:20    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

I really appreciate this discussion specifically as I do the shakuhachi forum generally. It is invaluable to have community!

There is much benefit to recordings, not only to get a sense of where one's playing is at personally but even to be encouraged by the fact that others at a similar stage actually sound similar!

Sometimes when I spend hours over the course of the year listening to professional shakuhachi CD's I get the impression that everyone plays at that level and then feel quite discouraged when I hear, in contrast, my own feeble sounds on a recording. It can be quite an isolating experience.

So, by sharing sound files among players of somewhat similar levels, I think we can all benefit from encouragement, constructive feedback and 'comforting comparisons'.
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knowshit
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PostPosted: 2013-12-02, 02:50    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Constructive criticism can be a good thing, but the only comments in this forum are slaps on the back such as 'great job' or 'nice work'. This is not the way forwards for the individual or the community.

Erin wrote:

Sometimes when I spend hours over the course of the year listening to professional shakuhachi CD's I get the impression that everyone plays at that level and then feel quite discouraged when I hear, in contrast, my own feeble sounds on a recording. It can be quite an isolating experience.

So, by sharing sound files among players of somewhat similar levels, I think we can all benefit from encouragement, constructive feedback and 'comforting comparisons'.

You will probably get better at playing by turning that frustration into practical energy, rather than feeling safe and reassured in the knowledge that your playing is about the same level as other amateurs.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-12-02, 03:51    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

It's important to remain humble and realize that we never achieve the level of play we aim for as shakuhachi players. That's part of the practice. Hopefully because we say, "good work", people don't think that means it's good enough to stop developing. Crying or Very sad
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knowshit
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PostPosted: 2013-12-02, 04:02    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Encouragement is one thing, constructive criticism is another. We only have one of those things here.

We probably need both. A measure of humility as well as desire. Support as well as criticism. A balance between frustration and pleasure from playing. Slaps on the back and slaps in the face.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2013-12-02, 16:10    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Constructive criticism is vital coming from a teacher one on one, but I doubt its usefulness here on the Forum, especially in matters of technique. On the other hand, the slaps on the back one gets here may make it easier to endure that other kind of “slap” one occasionally receives from one’s teacher.
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