ESS Shakuhachi Forum Forum Index ESS Shakuhachi Forum
Practice, Culture and History of Japanese Bamboo Flute 尺八. A Project of the European Shakuhachi Society (ESS)
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Why not to share what you make?
Goto page: <  1, 2, 3
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESS Shakuhachi Forum Forum Index -> ESS Forums -> The Teahouse
Previous topic :: Next topic  
Author Message
knowshit
Member

Offline

Joined: 18 Jul 2011
Posts: 26

PostPosted: 2013-12-03, 07:06    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Rick Riekert wrote:
Constructive criticism is vital coming from a teacher one on one, but I doubt its usefulness here on the Forum, especially in matters of technique. On the other hand, the slaps on the back one gets here may make it easier to endure that other kind of “slap” one occasionally receives from one’s teacher.


....Assuming they have a teacher. There must be a number of people who have nothing but this forum.

I agree, this is not the best place to receive critical feedback, and a teacher should be the person to do it, or at the very least, trusted people, as Erin said. There must be possibilities for this forum though, and we should search for them, since this forum is one of the sole hubs of the non Japanese shakuhachi community. Some people in this thread have talked about constructive criticism, and despite the lack of it, I would like to think that their mentioning it is more than just an aphorism or cliche.

I disagree with not being able to comment about technique. I fact, I think technical aspects of playing are just about the only thing that we can critique over this medium. Musical and artistic critique is abstract. Tone and volume are largely at the mercy of microphones and recording method at one end, and speakers, ears, and musical values at the other.

Traditional music is subject to varying interpretation between different ryuha, but as long as critique is backed by some sort of qualifier defining its basis, that might be workable.

Technique is also open to various methods of interpretation, and such critique should also be backed by a qualifier (In Kinkoryu this is the way its usually done, this group does it that way, Tozan players do it like this, etc). However, technical problems can be diagnosed fairly easily over a recording. Critique can be applied to pitch, finger movement, and details about physical positioning etc. if a video is posted. Additionally, some technical aspects are beyond the confines of established styles.

We never get to that level though, mainly because audio and video that is posted is too underdeveloped, or is not established traditional music against which standard practices can be applied as criticism. Thus, we rarely get as far as the what, let alone the why of it.

At the top of this forum is written, "Practice, culture, and history of shakuhachi." What exactly does that mean? By my understanding, the bulk of the meaning of culture means shakuhachi in context, traditional Japanese music. A thousand odd years of music and experimentation is deep, and to not take that up as part of the practice would be ignorant. Practice is embedded in that culture, as is history.

So if we are not doing that, then what are we doing? Years ago I saw a composer performing on a guzheng. He clearly knew nothing about it and probably found it at the side of the street, and he was hitting it with hoses and other implements to get some kind of 'new sound'. That in itself is fine, but is the equivalent of such activity our goal for shakuhachi, or do we want to increase our awareness of the thousand odd year culture that exists so we can draw from it, and carry it forwards? I understand its a huge ask of a beginner, but I would rather be imparting the knowledge of culture and encouraging pursuit of that, than encouraging them when they post music that could be thought of as little more than the product of cultural reappropriation.

I hope the grandiosity of such notions can be forgiven.... It's just that I really, really, really like shakuhachi.
Back to top
Rick Riekert
Member

Offline

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 84
Localisation: Long Island, NY

PostPosted: 2013-12-03, 16:18    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Know, I suppose the gist of my remarks is that those who are passionate about shakuhachi need to find a teacher or their efforts will likely never bear fruit. For my part, without a teacher at the very least I would not have been able to correct the less obvious flaws in my playing or perhaps find the motivation to continue over a number of years, especially when the going gets tough. But in truth the effects of having a teacher are all-pervasive. Others may be different. I don’t have your missionary zeal but I certainly wish you luck.
_________________
Mastery does not lay in the mastery of technique, but in penetrating the heart of the music. However, he who has not mastered the technique will not penetrate the heart of the music.
~ Hisamatsu Fûyô
Back to top
Jarle Jivanmukta
Member

Offline

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 90
Localisation: Gan, Norway

PostPosted: 2013-12-03, 21:04    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Erin brought this thread into a good path for this forum imo.

All music schools I know have students concerts, as we did in the ESS summer school. It has value to share even when it is not perfect. To share some files with fellow shakuhachi friends can not do anything bad, can it?

Its not spesific for some shakuhachi pros to hate the sound of amateurs, I guess it applies to any instruments. Listening is voluntarily here. And very positive it is for a beginner when the pros share words of encouragement. I was very surprised in an earlier thread that noone commented on Rily Lees critical comments.

And btw: maybe not make this thread into a discussion about learning without a teacher....
_________________
--------------------------
I belive in life before death.
Back to top
Kiku Day
Moderator

Offline

Joined: 20 Mar 2011
Posts: 865
Localisation: Nr Snede, DK/London UK

PostPosted: 2013-12-04, 07:07    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

Which thread was that, Jarle? I mean the one with the critical comments...
Back to top
Visit poster’s website Skype
Itamar Foguel
Member

Offline

Joined: 22 Mar 2011
Posts: 103
Localisation: Israel

PostPosted: 2013-12-26, 12:24    Post subject: Why not to share what you make? Reply with quote

i am not a pro but i did post some videos anyway,
of a preformance and of some practice sessions,
if i post them as a practice i see no shame in it.
people can watch if they want, and they can not watch if they are uninterested. the web is flooded with trash anyway and i rather see more shakuhachi then some random clip like the popular stuff on youtube.

i think that kiku's idea is wonderful, and i think that there is something in shakuhachi that makes you humble, and also in the japanese culture, but sometimes people just get too shy, and by not sharing everyone feels more alone.
i am more stressed to play in front of my teacher then to upload the same thing to youtube, and again, aspecially if there is a concept like what kiku presented, i think it could just grow and inspire the shakuhachi students in this forum.
im not sure if dividing it into a diffrent website would be desirble since this comunity is very small as it is.
Back to top
Visit poster’s website
Contenu Sponsorisé






PostPosted: Today at 12:20    Post subject: Why not to share what you make?

Back to top
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    ESS Shakuhachi Forum Forum Index -> ESS Forums -> The Teahouse All times are GMT + 2 Hours
Goto page: <  1, 2, 3
Page 3 of 3

 
Jump to:  

Index | Create a free forum | Free support forum | Free forums directory | Report a violation | Conditions générales d'utilisation
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2017 phpBB Group