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Tokuyama Takashi?

 
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2014-03-31, 02:46    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Does anyone have updates on Tokuyama Takashi? What he's doing these days? Projects?

I was just listening to him while painting and was wondering if he was ever going to record again?
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2014-03-31, 11:10    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

He made a fifth CD after the four CD set he made earlier. Barry Weiss might know, he used to be his pal.
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2014-04-01, 01:10    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Finding Barry might be interesting. Last I heard he was in a monastery.

I have the set and the 5th CD Kumoi. I was hoping that maybe he had recorded the rest of the pieces in his sheet music collection. He's such a great collector and fine player.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2014-04-02, 03:36    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

I like his notation and the simplicity of the notation. Yes it would be good to have recordings of all the notation. In fact I only bought the notation for the songs that were recorded, because if there's no sound to go by there's no way of producing the music. It's not like reading western notation.
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2014-04-02, 09:49    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Well, he is better - i.e. more detailed - than the Myoan-ji temple notation, but still his approach and style can only be fully grasped with recordings. Fewer teachers of his style and collection than just about anyone else.
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2014-04-08, 02:19    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Are we closer to knowing his influences/teachers?
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2014-04-08, 11:32    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Michael — Only from his own telling as a collector of music which is to say whatever sources (temples, geographical areas) he has given and what Barry Weiss has written: "Takahashi Tokuyama has studied with several senior shakuhachi masters, but aligns himself with no particular school. His recordings are entirely from the ancient traditional Japanese shakuhachi masterworks collection, the Koten honkyoku. In Tokyo, sensei Tokuyama leads a school for the study of traditional shakuhachi, the Honkyoku Study Group. Nowadays in Japan there are few people keeping this ancient musical tradition alive."

I do not have the book of his handy, right now: TAKE-NO-MICHI: THE PATH OF BAMBOO: A Beginner's Guide to Learning Shakuhachi Honkyoku byTakashi Tokuyama (with Barry Nyosui Weiss).

His book and his recordings are his statements of lineage and "transmissions." He hasn't provided any further guides, nor has he released recordings of his entire collection of collected and published music — as Brian previously stated. Yet his notation (and his guide to that notation) is well detailed - almost as well as the Jin Nyodo collection. And Tokuyama's authorized recordings provide a vivid record of his mature and peak musical intent.

He is a collector in the same tradition of collectors of traditional Japanese music as Kinko Kurosawa, Nakao Tozan, Higuchi Taizan, Jin Nyodo, Yokoyama Katsuya, Okuda Atsuya (Zensabo), etc. All have roots in the Fuké tradition and many have borrowed from various schools, some have composed, but no one can claim exclusive direct lineages with any credibility.

Tokuyama is a collector from many rare and various traditions. No one claims ownership of his work, and he makes no such claims to ownership of the music he has collected, fortunately.
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Last edited by x moran on 2014-04-08, 11:54; edited 1 time in total
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2014-04-08, 11:52    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

I'd still like news about him, however!
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2014-04-08, 12:24    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

I'll take that as a "no". I appreciate your comments Chris. You make some good points.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2014-04-09, 05:26    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

I think he is a Jin Nyodo player who then went off and learned a bunch of other songs and notated them. Some people say he learned from recordings but I don't know about that. Could be he learned from various teachers and recordings. His notation has more songs in sheer numbers than Jin Nyodo or anyone else for that matter.
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PostPosted: 2014-04-09, 09:22    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Tokuyama's notation is a more detailed extrapolation of the Myoan-ji notation — he describes the different Tsu-Re's and the ha-RO and the Ha-Ra-Ro etc. that the Myoan-ji notation does not. Jin Nyodo wrote everything in detailed Kinko notation with a lot of kanji sidebar notation.

I'm sorry, Michael, I didn't mean to avoid your question. It is not information that I think will be accessible in definitive form without an in-person interview with Tokuyama or Barry Weiss and I think none of those occurences are in the offing. My impressions are only what I hear in his recordings and read in his scores - to the best of my ability, that is.

Brian I know you respect Tokuyama's recordings/natation because I've heard your recordings of his versions. Tokuyama did collect some of his music from recordings, but probably not without further input from LIVE people associated with the tradition. I am always wary of statements that begin with "some people say ..." Many of Tokuyama's versions are unique. If a person has experience in listening to different versions of these piece of music across "platforms" (Kinko, Jin Nyodo Kinko, Yokuyama/KSK/Chinkusai/Dokyoku, Tozan, Chikuho, Myoan-ji Taizan, Myoan-ji Shimpo, I-Be-The-Only-Fuke-Dude-Ryu etc, etc etc) you can find a lot of beautiful information in the Tokuyama recordings and notation. He didn't make this shit up.

A few years ago I heard an American Kinko "shihan" disparage Tokuyama's work: "He shouldn't have done that to the music ..." But that statement was out of sheer ignorance of shakuhachi styles outside of modern styles (Kinko/Yokuyama/etc.)
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2014-04-14, 07:20    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

x moran wrote:
A few years ago I heard an American Kinko "shihan" disparage Tokuyama's work: "He shouldn't have done that to the music ..." But that statement was out of sheer ignorance of shakuhachi styles outside of modern styles (Kinko/Yokuyama/etc.)


Because one can not remain intellectual in terms of the arts (particularly traditional arts, in this matter "zen" arts), such as shakuhachi practice, everyone has a certain amount of embodied "ignorance" concerning the embodiment of another's practice. I would go as far as to say that everyone in this regard is different and not just different schools, lineages, or styles. This is called "radical pluralism" in western philosophy. I would also state it positively as, all of these different ways are part of "one sound" (Watazumi). Shakuhachi sounds are part of this one sound and non-shakuhachi sounds are part of this one sound- as are words- including disparaging remarks concerning other's musical aesthetics!

I think that understanding can go a long way; if we are better able to approach the basis of the differences between styles, lineages, etc, we might be better able to appreciate the differences, and be better for it. This is difficult to do in part because to understand the differences we should embody that school or style, that is, we can not fully understand intellectually. To understand Zensabo, for example, one needs to embody, practice, live with, Zensabo for a while... As Chikuzen might say, "let it work in you" (yes I know that I am mixing schools here).

When it comes down to it shakuhachi is about the sound, whether that be more spiritual or more artistry, nature, or mysticism, or whatever. Many of us have higher stakes than others in their shakuhachi world, having placed their financial survival upon it, for example, and many their entire life of musicianship. But in the end our voices meld with the ether, and those historical voices that have been clamoring to claim the one sound for their own.

I have had the privilege of having teachers that are nearly diametrically opposed. Let's just say that my embouchure is confused, however, all of my teachers have shared their particular embodiment and righteousness, generously. I am a better artist, and shakuhachi player for it I believe. I understand other player's sense of exclusivity, but do not ascribe to them, personally. Maybe that's my point. Confused
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2014-04-15, 02:49    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

Good post M.A. It doesn't matter what someone plays, it's how they play that matters. And we all have different paths. If we all played one thing or the same thing, that would become boring immediately. What I always try to remember is that the general public can't hear the difference between Tozan, Myoan, Kinko, various mini-branches of the above, Yokoyama, jinashi, jiari or even New Age or improv shakuhachi. It all sounds the same to them, so it must essentially be more similar than different. We can be as systematic or discriminating as we want in our pursuit of our own artistry, aesthetic or practice but the end result is still someone trying to manipulate a bamboo tube with 5 holes. And the other guy or gal is doing that too. Mr. Green
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PostPosted: 2014-04-15, 06:41    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

x moran wrote:
Tokuyama did collect some of his music from recordings ...


I misspoke there. That should have read "Tokuyama MAY have collected some of his music from recordings ..." and I find the idea of reverse-engineering from record to notation to be quite difficult, at best.
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PostPosted: 2014-04-20, 06:10    Post subject: Tokuyama Takashi? Reply with quote

This is a great thread. Thank you all 3!
It reminds me of Okuda as well who doesn't align himself with any style or teacher. Also Okuda studies old scores. He possesses all the Okamoto Chikugai collection and otehrs and compares and keep on studying. He has more than 100 honkyoku now in his repertoire. Also Okuda has used recordings to study from - but his pieces are certainly not just simple transcription of other peoples' recordings. I was amazed this time as well.
And yes, it could be very nice to know what Tokumaru is doing. Perhaps we need to invite him for WSF16...?
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