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my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing
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david
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 11:42    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

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Hello all,
I just thought I would throw in my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing. It is very frustrating to hear all the time that you have to have a teacher. I'd rather have somebody not submit a post than hear for the 100th time you need a teacher with the assumption that if you have no teacher you will never get anywhere.
I believe that if someone learns on their own through friends and forums like this (which together kind of make a teacher) the extra effort required will make the rewards all the lovelier. Some people will probably never have a teacher and all they are asking for is a little help.
Myself for example. I have been playing off and on for probably 4 or 5 years now. I have never had a teacher nor even been in the presence of another person playing a shakuhachi (except for youtube and such). I work 2 jobs and have a wife and 2 children. I have little time for much anything, but I do put in my own practice time whenever I can. I don't have a computer at home, so I can't skype...and I don't want to. When I am at home and not working I want to spend that time with my family and not on a computer. Plus my budget is a rollercoaster. I am just trying to show that there are plenty of regular people out there who may never have a teacher and get very discouraged when all they hear is "go get a teacher".
I consider myself a good player..it took me forever to figure out kan..but when I did it was so miraculous! And that was by the way thanks to Kiku on the old forum.

I feel that if someone can learn one piece, that is all you really need.

Sincerely,
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Christian Grobmeier
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 12:00    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I would think it depends on what you want to get.

Honkyoku is music which has notation - but the notation is only basic. The real important stuff is teached only by mouth. Therefore you cannot learn it by your own. You can learn of course the basic finger technique, but thats all. If you want to learn a specific style in a specific lineage, you have no other chance to learn it from a teacher.

If you want to watch youtube, then you can learn a lot of it. But all the players follow different styles - how can you know if the Ho-Ro is played in Myoan style or in Kinko? There is no literature about it.

But you can learn to play Shakuhachi in your OWN style and for your OWN pleasure and satisfaction. Of course, this is possible. You are then walking a bit outside the tradition and you are not playing a specific style. You play then your own style.

Nothing is against this as long as if you are happy.

But - same as with f.e. guitars - you need to take care with wrong techniques. You can hold a guitar in a wrong kind. You can also blow in a wrong kind. Wrong technique is not easily replaced with good technique. Some of the techniques can be explained here. But nobody can look in your flat and see if you are doing it wrong or not. How can you differ wrong from right? I cannot - this is were I need somebody looking from outside at my body when I am playing.

Additionally, the right teacher might instruct you also in the right mind. I believe the state of mind is important for your playing. I am still practicing on the mind thing, but have already experienced that I should listen careful to what my Sensei has to say. He is a very experienced man and very experienced Shakuhachi player. So I can say I do not only learn Shakuhachi. I learn some kind of Shakuhachi way. How could I, without Sensei?

Anyway i understand your time and budget problems. I takes me lot of nerves to manage the stuff myself. But I have learned lot from my teacher. I have started on my own myself, but my mind changed completely.

Maybe you have the chance to go to a teacher when you children have grown up. I guess you'll enjoy it.

BTW, I don't think you are a bad player just b/c you have no teacher.

Anyway, enjoy your playing!

This is my personal opinion (at the moment) and I am looking forward for the responses of the real shakuhachi pros in this forum
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 12:46    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

My two cents for today is just one question: Why is it so important for you to convince other people of your opinion/point of view?
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Christian Grobmeier
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 12:49    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I don't feel its about convincing somebody.

David wrote about some feelings I can understand very well. I wanted to explain why my mind changed. For me it is not important anybody else does believe the same I do. I cannot speak for David, but i could not find anything in his post which shows this direction.
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 13:04    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Wink Wear the shoe if you think it fits you Christian, but what do you think, could this question also have been addressed to David?
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Christian Grobmeier
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 13:08    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

This question was too general for me :-)

I still do not see where David tried to convince people. He also has explained that he did not care so far
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 13:42    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Okay It seems you see my point, I'll stop teasing. I like having a good teacher, but I agree with David: it's a clever thing when people make their own choices, being faithful to their own personal situations. That should be respected. Pro-talk has no surplus-value here.
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Christian Grobmeier
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 14:03    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Ah understood you now. Thanks for your patience.
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Jarle Jivanmukta
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PostPosted: 2011-05-06, 19:34    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I prefer to have a teacher myself. Whatever people choose to do with their flute is of course personal. The nature of a forum becomes very boring, when questions and conversations are to restricted.
Btw: interesting change off topic........
:-)
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robertoS
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PostPosted: 2011-05-07, 10:26    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Well, I think that the question about the appropriation of an exotic instrument or tradition is a topic over which we could discuss endlessly. People starts to play shakuhachi for different reasons (I studied japanese music). What it is important, in my opinion, is the personal motive, or feeling, for which an individual begin (and carry on) this practice. Depend on you what 'way' you choose to follow.. Wink
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-07, 12:35    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Okay
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CharlesKoeppen
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PostPosted: 2011-05-07, 15:36    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

It's all true about the different paths and everything, but I notice that most high-level players and teachers seem to saying about honkyoku "you've got to try this, it's so cool" almost like they were talking about some mind altering chemical or something. I learned Kyorei and Chosi, I can kind of see what they mean and look forward to learning more, but I've got to admit that most of my practice time gets devoted to working up Telemann's Fantasy #2 for Solo Flute that I've been working on for over 6 months now. It has a bit more kick for me at this point.
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Henrique - "MusgoDaP
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PostPosted: 2011-05-07, 16:26    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

You can learn any instrument by your own at certain level...

Teachers can say how you can get more and more of an instrument...

I like both... but the oportunity to receive new points of view from how to get something is intrigant and give you impulse to put foot after foot and go on... in a diferent way that you would do by your own!
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-07, 17:29    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Mort de Rire David, don't walk the loop.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2011-05-08, 11:34    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

To David: This seems an appropriate place to post this small story. I was in the highlands of central Kyushu a few days ago with family and friends for some well-earned R&R. After finishing a hike around a volcanic lake I returned to where my group were enjoying the sunny day only to hear what sounded like a shakuhachi. As I approached I saw a man probably in his 60s standing next to my family and indeed playing a rough shakuhachi. When he saw me he stopped and asked to my daughter in English, "Is this him?" He introduced himself as a strange person who at this late stage in life decided that he should take up the shakuhachi (actually that's more common than not here). He asked me to inspect his shakuhachi which he made himself from instructions off of the internet. I noticed that the music he was playing was western pop music and not Japanese. His shakuhachi was very rough but functional to his delight. I asked him if he had a teacher and he responded that he lives in a remote village nearby and there are no shakuhachi players for quite some distance. So, he decided to teach himself, though he wanted a teacher. This was interesting to me because it showed me that even here in Japan, a teacher is not always easy to come by, but desire is the best resource. I applaud you on your intend David and hope that you find the same joy in what you are doing as this man obviously did.  The whole teacher/no teacher thing is spoken to new learners simply to give them an advantage in learning with fewer frustrations and perhaps less time spent on basic things, but if someone isn't interested in that route, or can't take it as was the case with the man in my story, then let their discovery be fueled by desire and the rewards will follow. 
As a side note, since he knew how to use a computer, I suggested that he try to get lessons on skype. He seemed quite amused by that, but said he will check into it.
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PostPosted: Today at 01:45    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing

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