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my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing
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Jim Thompson
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 04:59    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

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Erin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 05:10    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Jim Thompson wrote:
Edosan is never far away. He hears you.


Laughing
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Jarle Jivanmukta
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 09:38    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

This forum is only as good and inspiring as the people that frequent it and the level of positivity and encouragement that is showed in the discussions.
Isn't it a good idea to think that when we interact in this forum we should try to inspire each other.
Obviously there are many schools, many ways to learn/not learn, many types of music to play.

This forum is open for anyone that decides to join yes?
Nowhere is it said you can only come here if you have teacher.

Maybe the pro teacher people should just ignore the threads where their response would be "go see a teacher", as it doesn't help anyway....
I am sure it will be frustrating to see a lot people without teachers trying to help each other when you know that one hour with a teacher will sort things out.
But I guess the first shakuhachi player was without a teacher also.........


BTW: The forum can become very empty and boring as we all should ask our teacher any question we might have, so whats the need for forum anyway?
My wish: lets be friendly, focus on helping each other, I would hate to see this forum closing down.......
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 10:53    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Laughing As you can see above, Brian, a perfect example of the cultural trinity. Since were here on an European Forum I just can express my hopes that the old culture will prevail....this time. Understanding and empathy requested. But it's sadly clear that the old guys without thinking are jumping in their old patterns.
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david
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 11:48    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I don't mean to show anybody any disrespect. I was trying to be as straight forward as possible and quick. The computer I was using kept locking up. I wrote that last post 3 times before it finally posted.
I respect everyones opinion on this forum. I guess I am having a hard time getting my point across. Let me try again. Lets use the example of the educated and self educated (although I don't think it a proper one). The person without a teacher (self educated) posts a question and the first response is from someone (educated) telling them that it would be better to find a teacher and learn that way. And this happens a lot. Usually there aren't too many responses after that. All I am saying is just answer the question anyway. Maybe that person has gone through many weeks/months getting to that point and all they need is one little hint to push them over their current obstacle.

And again..very important...realise this is not a choice (teacher/no teacher) for some people.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 12:44    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I don't really see any problem with this topic. I don't think David has been disrespectful, nor have the responses been disrespectful.

David to respond to your specific point about getting technical advice on the forum............I can only say how I feel about it personally. Which is that it's very difficult to execute shakuhachi techniques that you actually know with any consistency. Trying to describe them to people in writing is even more difficult. So most teachers hesitate to attempt because they know the probability of the idea being imparted with any accuracy is slim.

Jarle you're right anyone can join the forum and they should, but you're wrong in the sense that none of the pro teachers have insisted David take lessons. Where did that idea come from?
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 12:49    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Hi David

There is a tendency towards a quick "get a teacher" or "you can't learn the soul of honkyoku without a teacher" answers on the shakuhachi fora so far.... and it is probably true for most of us that we do need a teacher.... And that is why it is hard to get rid of this attitude you are asking us to revise - with very good reasons!
Thanks for being courageous enough to take up the subject!
Another reason is also it will not be very respectful of us to encourage "do your own thing - it's totally cool" to a music genre that has such a heavy historical/musical tradition. So I think many of us has gone into an automatic mode of "you have to have a teacher" answering machine because we are also playing safe here! "I didn't say he didn't need a teacher" - kind of thing - a little like did anybody in this thread really say to you: Go get a teacher? However it is implicit - I know!

For me it was absolutely necessary to get a teacher.... but I was free and young... and jumped on the train to go to Japan from Europe. I spoke Japanese - I had family to stay with etc etc...

I know quite some people who are autodidact and do a great job at it.
It may - or may not be shakuhachi playing in the traditional way... but what is common for these autodidact who continue to play is that they really enjoy it!
I know autodidacts who can play as if they have had a teacher for many years. It depends on what you want and how your musical ability is.
I know autodidacts who do their own thing... they may never play in kari position - happily unaware of what it is and the work involved for most people to get a stable kari playing going.... but they play relatively pitch-wise and it sounds great. Often very expressive!

The funny thing about Japan, which encourages in arts such a rigid learning process of imitation for many many years, is that the Japanese themselves produces these unique people who suddenly stands out by breaking from tradition - either later on musically but also some in the process of learning. I have lots of respect for those people!

So respect for the autodidacts who want to learn shakuhachi by themselves for one or another reason is necessary! But bear over with us if we answer in auto-mode and tell you to get a teacher. Hopefully there will also be answers you can use. Otherwise you have to ask again and remind us that we have gone into auto-mode and not helping!
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Dun Romin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 13:12    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Okay Thank you, Kiku. Is it possible new people on this Forum wil be able to read some explanation like this in the introduction?
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Jarle Jivanmukta
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 13:54    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:


Jarle you're right anyone can join the forum and they should, but you're wrong in the sense that none of the pro teachers have insisted David take lessons. Where did that idea come from?


No, I didn't get that idea, but I suggest that if the response would be "go see a teacher", maybe then it is better not to reply, at least if several other people allready suggested that.....
My suggestion was more general, and not specifically about this thread.

Well, this talk is making me tired, I better go play some shakuhachi, the way I was taught by my teacher Laughing

BTW and completely of topic: I just got a new son, he is one week old, and getting used to sleeping on my chest in a piece of cloth, like this:


He sleeps well and I guess he will be my new kari teacher.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 13:59    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Til lykke med sønnen!!!!
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2011-05-10, 14:27    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Okay David, and anybody else...shoot. What do you want to know? If your question doesn't elicit an answer from any of the more experienced players it's probably because it's not something that can be easily explained without visual/audible clues and they don't want to be the source of misinformation, no matter how benevolent they might be. But, please don't let that stop you. I don't think you'll get the answer 'go get a teacher' again. In fact, perhaps we can all just consider it as an understood point and assume that any questions that come up arise from circumstances that don't allow the 'teacher' option right now. Fair enough?
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Perry Yung
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PostPosted: 2011-05-12, 20:07    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

david wrote:
Maybe that person has gone through many weeks/months getting to that point and all they need is one little hint to push them over their current obstacle.

And again..very important...realise this is not a choice (teacher/no teacher) for some people.


Hi David, Thanks for expressing your thoughts. I know you have been playing for a while and I completely understand your situation so I applaud your effort in opening this discussion. In fact, there are many many people out there all over the world in a similar situation. There was a long thread about this on the BBQ, I'll try to find it. In a nutshell, there are many very real reasons why people can not sit in front of a teacher, yours is just one example.

This morning, after I dropped off my kids at their classrooms, I rode the elevator down. I normally take the stairs but I had my Razor scooter with me and was tired from having just lugged it up 6 flights. In the elevator, a boy in a wheel chair caught my eye and gave me a big hello with a bright smile. Then, he looked longing at my Razor. It just broke my heart thinking what might be running through his head. In that moment, I would've done anything to give this boy the experience of pushing a scooter down the street with his legs pumping. But, somehow I was reminded that my experience is only mine, and that this young boy could have been thinking, " I bet I could beat that scooter to a finish line any day".

For now, David, I would say your flute is your teacher.
Namaste, Perry
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Yu-Jin
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PostPosted: 2011-05-13, 05:53    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I look at it this way: if I am taking a stroll for relaxation after lunch, then I can manage the route on my own. Frankly speaking, I'd prefer to do it on my own, because most likely I will never go the same way I did last time. However, if I need to get from point A to point B, I will make sure to get directions, and I would also appreciate any word of advice to to make my trip shorter and easier.

Same with studying shakuhachi. When I heard Riley Lee playing, I realized there's a very long way to get there. I wanted to go there, but I was not about to start reinventing the wheel. So I decided to get a teacher to save time and effort (I am glad I did!). In my case, I had point B I wanted to go to, so I needed a map and directions. If I didn't care where to go, I'd probably study and explore shakuhachi on my own, same way as I am playing Native American flute, duduk and several other instruments.
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Bas Nijenhuis
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PostPosted: 2011-05-13, 07:57    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

Very well said Yu-Jin!
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GoStrangely
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PostPosted: 2011-05-15, 13:44    Post subject: my 2 cents about the whole teacher thing Reply with quote

I have read this thread with great interest, I am in a similar situation, there are seemingly no teachers in the west of Scotland and my internet connection makes skype impractical, as to whether I could afford either of the latter 2 options, even if they were available, is debatable. I try to play shakuhachi because I love the sound, the tradition and the whole sense of the instrument; but being in my mid 50's and not in the best of health it is often a struggle.

I usually hold back from asking questions as I feel that the reply to get a teacher will be forthcoming, in-spite of having already explained my situation, there does sometimes seem to be a lack of understanding/empathy when this subject comes up, as it did on the previous forum on more than one occasion, frankly reading such responses has often left me feeling totally discouraged and it has taken great effort on my part to re-engage; i.e. I am sometimes left with the sense that without a teacher I am simply wasting my time.

This forum is an excellent resource and I am constantly impressed, and grateful, for the time and effort experienced players are willing to put into it, but please remember that a teacher, either in person or on-line, is not an option for all of us, however much we might wish it to be, and to have it intimated that learning to play without a teacher is simply not a realistic proposition does nothing to encourage the lonely solo traveller.

In conclusion I am simply asking that if someone says that a teacher is not an option please accept that at face value.

Paul
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