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Okaralo sound
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-13, 17:59    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
x moran wrote:
Jim Thompson wrote:
... I can't let go of this nagging sensation that somehow "sheep dip" plays a role in all of this.


What is Japanese for "Kindness of Sheepdip"?


シェエプヂイプの親切

Ironically, the Okuralo probably would not be considered to have the same "depth" as the Boehm flute, because sideblown flutes all have a distinct hole around 3KHz, which gives them a more "hollow" sound than endblown flutes. This is due to a Helmholtz resonance of the space between the embouchure hole and the end stopper, which acoustically short-circuits frequencies in that neighborhood in the radiated sound. Not so for endblown flutes, so the Okuralo has a tone with more power and presence, especially in the lower register. I'll try to do a sound demo and post a comparison sometime after the Obon holiday.
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LowBlow
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PostPosted: 2011-08-13, 19:32    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby wrote:


Ironically, the Okuralo probably would not be considered to have the same "depth" as the Boehm flute, because sideblown flutes all have a distinct hole around 3KHz, which gives them a more "hollow" sound than endblown flutes. This is due to a Helmholtz resonance of the space between the embouchure hole and the end stopper, which acoustically short-circuits frequencies in that neighborhood in the radiated sound. Not so for endblown flutes, so the Okuralo has a tone with more power and presence, especially in the lower register. I'll try to do a sound demo and post a comparison sometime after the Obon holiday.


Can you describe the difference between the Okuralo and a Boehm Flute with shakuhachi head? Maybee this should be discussed in an other thread.
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Jon Palombi
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 00:17    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Hey Toby,

Is this fellow talking about you and your Okuralo?

http://biskey7.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/comparing-the-shakuhachi-okuralo-an…

Also, an older post of yours I found on the archived Mujitsu and Tairaku BBQ Shakuhachi Forum. Cool

http://shakuhachiforum.com/viewtopic.php?id=2813


I wonder if I could buy one for my solid silver, open-holed Gemeinhardt???
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Last edited by Jon Palombi on 2011-09-19, 19:41; edited 1 time in total
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 00:48    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Basically, an Okuralo is exactly a Boehm flute body with a shakuhachi head. It was invented in the 1920s by a Japanese nobleman named Baron Okura. The same guy who started the Okura Hotel. At the time Japonisme was big in Europe, the brief Taisho democracy was in full swing, and there was an effort being made to marry the two traditions, soon to be lost in an extreme nationalist backlash. Hopefully this link to my photobucket album works where among other musical miscellanea I've posted pix of my Okuralo with some commentary. There are some interesting modifications of the Boehm design so that the flute can easily be held and played vertically.

http://m471.photobucket.com/albums/kymarto/?src=www&pbauth=1_uLEBonVPfa…

On my last trip to California I visited Monty Levenson and we compared the Okuralo to a normal concert flute with one of his Shakulute heads. The sound and feel were roughly identical.
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Jon Palombi
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 01:02    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Interesting... thanks for the background info, Toby. I wondered if any modifications were made to the main body of the classical flute. It makes sense that there would be some adjustments for the vertical hand-positioning.

And yeah, I've seen and heard the bamboo shakuhachi head-joints, like the one Monty uses, on classical flute bodies. You say they play approximately identical? Doesn't the bamboo head-joint contribute to a more organic, bamboo-ish tonal quality than the all metal Okuralo... or not? Probably depends on who is playing it? After all, a master player can make a beer bottle sing like a nightingale on a full moon evening (like tonight).

BTW, the RapidShare download says it's outdated, so you no can't hear or download the MP3 sound clip. Sad
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 06:03    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Jon Palombi wrote:
Interesting... thanks for the background info, Toby. I wondered if any modifications were made to the main body of the classical flute. It makes sense that there would be some adjustments for the vertical hand-positioning.

And yeah, I've seen and heard the bamboo shakuhachi head-joints, like the one Monty uses, on classical flute bodies. You say they play approximately identical? Doesn't the bamboo head-joint contribute to a more organic, bamboo-ish tonal quality than the all metal Okuralo... or not? Probably depends on who is playing it? After all, a master player can make a beer bottle sing like a nightingale on a full moon evening (like tonight).

BTW, the RapidShare download says it's outdated, so you no can't hear or download the MP3 sound clip. Sad


Whoa, whoa, whoa...we are getting dangerously close to resurrecting the "effect of materials" debate which apparently helped to douse the Shakuhachi BBQ. I will say no more here than that all the scientific evidence collected from 100 years of acoustic experiment, plus the theoretical paradigm suggest that in woodwind instruments there is no perceptible effect on sound of differing wall materials, IF all else remains equal (a big "if").

I closed my Rapidshare account, so that link is gone. At the moment I am sitting on a lovely beach near Kyoto on the Sea of Japan (East Sea for you Koreans), so I'm not going to think about that right now Wink
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LowBlow
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 09:26    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby wrote:
Basically, an Okuralo is exactly a Boehm flute body with a shakuhachi head.

On my last trip to California I visited Monty Levenson and we compared the Okuralo to a normal concert flute with one of his Shakulute heads. The sound and feel were roughly identical.


Thank you Toby,

so i am going to by one shakulute in the future. I own an quena for my boehm flute as well. I am glad to have bought one with open wholes.
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 10:55    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Quena for the flute? That sounds great; I am a fairly accomplished quena player, I would love to try such a thing. Where did you find it? Not to take business away from Monty, but if you can find the right diameter tubing, or ca find an old cheap flute head to sacrifice, you could make your own pretty easily. Since you only use the top part of the shakuhachi, which has a straight bore, almost any old piece of junk will do. The most difficult part is attaching the tenon into the head seamlessly, Monty says.

Any normal flute is basically fine vertically, you just need some sort of thumbrest--you can improvise something or perhaps you can modify a "Bo Pep", which is a thumbrest for the flute held horizontally.

Really, I was thinking about getting some Okuralo heads made of metal in China. You could probably get 100 made for $1000 dollars--they would be dead easy to make.
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LowBlow
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 12:15    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby wrote:
Quena for the flute? That sounds great;

Really, I was thinking about getting some Okuralo heads made of metal in China. You could probably get 100 made for $1000 dollars--they would be dead easy to make.


Link to Quena Head. This is one made out of wood. I had one made out of grenadil. You will find other heads for the silver Flute (Xiao and others)there as well. Switch your Boehm in a native instrument?
http://www.shakuhachi-shop.de/component/virtuemart/?page=shop.product_detai…
special reduced price 160€ only three left then sold out. I think the picture there shows the grenadil one.



For the Okuralo head. Maybee there is a market here. I will take one
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 14:33    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

They have shakuhachi heads for the same price. No utaguchi inlay, but if the proportions are correct they should work as well as a shakulute, more or less, although Monty's heads are beautifully made. My Okuralo is a straight cylinder, no diameter change except a flare in the last couple of millimeters at the top. Monty's were the same. My plan is to find an old flute headjoint that fits one of my flutes and construct a shakuhachi head around the tenon--jiari--so that I can play with the geometry. This should definitely change the timbre. I want to see if I can make the sound "deep" Okay

Also, I corresponded with Dr. John Coltman, who gave me a rough plan for dimensions that should bring the third octave in line. Basically, all endblown flutes play the top register sharp. On side-blown flutes this can be corrected by adjusting the end-stopper position, but no such adjustments exist on an endblown flute, and meri/Kari doesn't work well in the third register.

I have a Yamaha student flute that I bought for $20 that I suppose I could sacrifice for the tenon, but it seems a shame because it plays perfectly. And I've had no luck finding tubing of the correct diameter. So I'm on the lookout for a real junker flute to which I won't mind taking a hacksaw.


Last edited by Toby on 2011-08-15, 03:33; edited 1 time in total
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CharlesKoeppen
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PostPosted: 2011-08-14, 16:38    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby wrote:
Basically, all endblown flutes play the top register sharp. On end-blown flutes this can be corrected by adjusting the end-stopper position, but no such adjustments exist on an endblown flute, and meri/Kari doesn't work well in the third register.


I realize there is a typo in the second sentence of this quote (you meant "side-blown flutes can be corrected...", right?), but I thought that it was the parabolic shape of the Boehm head joint that corrected the the third register, not the stopper.
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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-15, 03:49    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Thanks for spotting that--it's now corrected.

Actually what the "parabolic" constriction does (it's not really a parabola) is to progressively sharpen the higher modes. The reason that this is necessary is that in order to control the higher notes the player has to shorten the air jet (as well as blowing harder of course). This "meri" shading of the hole increases end correction and lowers pitch, so it is necessary to raise the pitch in order that a comfortable jet length can be maintained. The end space has a Helmholtz resonance that affects playing frequencies in its neighborhood. Those are usually just around the beginning of the third octave, extending to the cutoff around F#4. players of Latin flute can get higher by pushing the head cork all the way in, eliminating the space, but it makes the flute monstrously out of tune above the 2nd register. If you have a Boehm flute, try it.
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LowBlow
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PostPosted: 2011-08-18, 12:12    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby wrote:
Quena for the flute? That sounds great; I am a fairly accomplished quena player, I would love to try such a thing.


Here are two pics of this head. It is made out of grenadil.





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Toby
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PostPosted: 2011-08-20, 14:22    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

This is excellent work. I will try to find time to record and post a comparison of Okuralo and flute soon. Is it possible to upload a sound file to the forum somewhere?
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Christian Grobmeier
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PostPosted: 2011-08-20, 16:21    Post subject: Okaralo sound Reply with quote

Toby, there is a button with the name "File" on your reply box, right of Video and Image. You can try to use this to upload. If it fails, for example because of size restrictions, you need to upload
your file somewhere else and link to it. There are several places for musicians, like soundcloud.com to do that
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PostPosted: Today at 13:48    Post subject: Okaralo sound

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