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Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire

 
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noodles
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PostPosted: 2011-10-06, 02:41    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

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I have been playing the shakuhachi for 10 months now. I don't have a teacher yet, but I have been learning from the web, DVD's, and Cd's with their accompanying instructional manuals. I can play in tune, in both the otsu and kan registers, but my tone is not clear. There is a soft hissing sound, like the air coming out of a bicycle tire, along with the note. Sometimes it is very noticeable, sometimes not so noticeable, but still lurking nonetheless beneath the surface of my notes. I assume this is because my emboushure is not built up yet, and that hopefully, over time, the hissing sound will disappear. I've looked at my emboushure in the mirror while I play, and I can't make my lip opening any smaller or narrower than it already is (especially for the kan register). Again, it is my hope that this will require a subtle change of my emboushure over a long time of practicing, however long that may be. My question is, "has anyone else experienced this annoying hissing sound, and if you have, how long did it take you to get rid of it?".
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Jon Kypros
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PostPosted: 2011-10-06, 15:18    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Hello,

Are you able to record your playing? Do you have more than one flute to see if it is you and not the flute? The character of the flute might be prone to this sound and a very sharp blowing edge or utaguchi can also cause this sometimes. When you produce an air stream away from the flute it should be more or less silent. I recommend everyone have two flutes for this reason, a primary instrument and something smaller or longer. The hissing sound is common among beginners who are expelling too much are, using too much force, etc. This sound can also come up from the opposite or too little air or a fragile "airy" embouchure. Further advice can be given after seeing you play.
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Jim Thompson
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PostPosted: 2011-10-06, 18:00    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

When I first started my teacher (Yoshizawa Sensei) said airy sound is O.K. at first. Don't worry about it. Just the fact that you are already aware of it and want to have a purer sound means that you will consciously and unconsciously move away from it over time as you gain control of the beast. Blow on!
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-10-07, 13:36    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

The hissing air sound is a sign of your breath hitting the utaguchi other places than the sweet spot that produces sound. Part of it can be the shakuhachi timbre... but if you have played for 10 month on your own - probably you can develop a much more focused sound. If really you can't make your air/opening narrower than it already is - you should try to direct the air differently. Try to blow more down into the flute than across - just to see if that helps. Remember to search for the sound producing spot anyway.

And yes, I second Jim in saying that as long as you are aware of it - it will slowly develop. Don't let that hissing sound make you feel it is not good what you doing. Just keep on going!
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noodles
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PostPosted: 2011-10-10, 02:12    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Thanks everyone for your input. It's frustrating not being able to get the pristine tones I hear on the cd's, and I think I may suffer from bad shakuhachi lips. But I'll keep on truckin', and hopefully be able to get a live lesson in a couple of months.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2011-10-10, 06:00    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Being in the business of recording, I can tell you that the pristine tones you hear on cds are often a manufactured reality. Recording technicians can reduce air sound by a number of techniques including microphone selection and placement, room acoustics and sound source location, EQ, etc. That isn't to say that the sound you hear isn't that of the player, it's just to say that some of the sounds emitted may be reduced, accentuated or augmented in order to come up with the sound that the performer ultimately wants his/her audience to hear. Using these representative sounds as an ideal goal may be useful, but also unachievable for quite some time.
In the end, Jim's comment prevails and is right.
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Erin
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PostPosted: 2011-10-11, 19:25    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Jeff Cairns wrote:
Being in the business of recording, I can tell you that the pristine tones you hear on cds are often a manufactured reality. Recording technicians can reduce air sound by a number of techniques including microphone selection and placement, room acoustics and sound source location, EQ, etc. That isn't to say that the sound you hear isn't that of the player, it's just to say that some of the sounds emitted may be reduced, accentuated or augmented in order to come up with the sound that the performer ultimately wants his/her audience to hear. Using these representative sounds as an ideal goal may be useful, but also unachievable for quite some time.
In the end, Jim's comment prevails and is right.


That's very helpful to know Jeff. Okay
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Michael Komatsuzen
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PostPosted: 2011-10-15, 00:35    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Jeff Cairns wrote:
Being in the business of recording, I can tell you that the pristine tones you hear on cds are often a manufactured reality. Recording technicians can reduce air sound by a number of techniques including microphone selection and placement, room acoustics and sound source location, EQ, etc. That isn't to say that the sound you hear isn't that of the player, it's just to say that some of the sounds emitted may be reduced, accentuated or augmented in order to come up with the sound that the performer ultimately wants his/her audience to hear. Using these representative sounds as an ideal goal may be useful, but also unachievable for quite some time.
In the end, Jim's comment prevails and is right.


Thanks for mentioning this Jeff. This is important for those learning away from teachers in particular, either learning on skype or alone, I think. The issue of volume and meris are a particular issue in recordings, I know. Most, but not all, recordings on the market present the sound within a much less dynamic band of volume (among other things you also mentioned) that make meris louder, as an example, in addition to a general presentation of sound that is not natural.

I think that it is also helpful to keep in mind that the sound that reaches one's ear when playing is not the same quality of sound that reaches someone standing in front of you, much less at a distance away. Jon Mentioned recording one's self, and I think that this is a valuable practice to do to learn how one's playing actually sounds like. I have been surprised in the past when I thought I sounded one way and the recording reveals something else.

Noodles, I have had my own lip issues and have over come them. If you are seriously concerned about it try to get into contact with a teacher who can evaluate your embouchure. I also like Jim's comment, and would add that some breathiness is good!
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Ba
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PostPosted: 2011-10-27, 09:28    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire Reply with quote

Sometimes I take one deeply (more than 8 hours) lesson of Honkyoku.
Then my teacher said - "don't try to copy my amboushur... don't try, we are different... find your own amboushour".

And I think, after 4 years (it's very short period of course, but who knows...), a amboushour isn't something stable, it is like water.
Who remember what Bruce Lee said: "if you put water into a cup, water becomes a cup... if you put water into a bottle, water becomes a bottle. Be water, my frend!".

I think that aprouch is correct for more other "shakuhachi stuffs" (sorry for my english))), like breathing, learning, flutemaking, e.t.c.
But one thing is more important, at my own view:

Ok - you are water. In what a cups and bottles you will becomes?)))
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PostPosted: Today at 01:44    Post subject: Air Coming Out of A Bicycle Tire

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