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Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan )

 
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garyc
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PostPosted: 2011-10-06, 21:41    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

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I'm working on Koku and there is a phrase that appears repeatedly in Koku and other honkyoku pieces I'm playing which is eluding me.

the phrase #10 : open close 4,Chi (kari )-----Atari(4)--- open close 4 ,U ( 1and3 ) ( dai meri )---san no U(3)( dai Kan )-----Tsu (meri) ------Atari

My difficulty is getting control of the abrupt onset of the San No U(3) (dai kan ) in this phase. When I play it, the San No U(3) seems to jump in, but when I listen to masters (ex Nyogetsu ) play this transition from U(1 and 3) to San No U(3) is much more controlled. I have tried various approaches to closing 1 but still U(1and3) dai meri to San No U(3) dai kan is a abrupt transition which sounds out of place musically.

I'm hoping I missing a technique, such as a grace note or how to close the hole, or easier fingering of San no U that I can work on to improve this.

Any special technique or helpful technique to controlling San No U?

I've tried Jinashi of various lenghts, and even a Yuu, with similar results so I think it's me not the flute.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2011-10-07, 03:13    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

Hi Garyc,
I'm not entirely certain of the note you are talking about. In my experience (limited though it may be to the kinko style) san no u isn't a dai kan note, but rather a kan note. If we are talking about the same thing, then you should be playing that note kari and with some strength. Therefore, the transition from U dai meri which of course is a deep meri note the same in pitch to re and played with less force, to san no U requires that change in head position from dai meri to kari and a change in air flow from medium soft to strong. In my experience, that's how to do it.
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garyc
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PostPosted: 2011-10-07, 06:53    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

Jeff thanks for your reply, my post was in error , the phrase is in kan I should have translated it as shown below. Sorry for any confusion it caused .

phrase #10 (kan) : close 4,Chi (meri )-----Atari(4)--- open close 4 ,U ( 1and3 ) ---san no U(3)( dai Kari )-----Tsu (meri) ------ lower head at end

The version and notation of Koku I'm trying to play is Jin Nyodo, San no U kan has dai Kari to the right and what looks like yowai or weak to the left. In later occurrences of the phrase it's U dai meri then San no U dai Kari as you indicated.

I know Notation can be only and indicator. But I still have an abrupt San no U note no matter how I close hole 1, after reading your note I tried closing hole 1 in meri pos then moving to Kari which does seem to provide a controllable raise in pitch at the start of San no u, is this how you play it ? Close the move to Kari or close and move to Kari at the same time. I'm not sure if a pitch raise in san no U is the transistion I'm hearing on recordings, but it does have give me some control, if that's the right way.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2011-10-07, 10:35    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

Garyc, I'm not versed in Jin Nyodo style playing, but I play san no U directly without a すル。 Maybe somebody better versed in the style can shed some light on your problem. Without seeing you play it, it's very difficult to assess the problem. If you could upload a short video, or even an audio clip, it might be of some use.
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garyc
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PostPosted: 2011-10-08, 13:37    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

I thought abrupt on set of San no U might be intrinsic to shakuhachi or a common issue, but if it's just my technique then its sounds like it might only be solved 1x1 with a teacher. I was hoping it was yet another mysterious qwerk of shakuchachi others have solved and could share.
Jeff thanks so much for your input.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2011-10-09, 12:51    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan ) Reply with quote

Garyc, in the sequence I think you're referring to if you play U closing holes 2, 4, and 5 and then for San no U also close 1 you should be able with some practice to hear a better transition.
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Mastery does not lay in the mastery of technique, but in penetrating the heart of the music. However, he who has not mastered the technique will not penetrate the heart of the music.
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PostPosted: Today at 12:16    Post subject: Controlling onset of San No U ( hole 3 only in Kan )

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