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17th Century Komuso's Lament
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Johnny Filter
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 15:12    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
A 14 MB movie file; a 17th Century Komuso's lament of the difficulties to be a maker.

How to pass through the gate?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25980568/17th Century Komuso's Lament.wmv
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 15:22    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

That's really nice. The playing is a bit anachronistic but does anyone recognize the tune?
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 16:55    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Very nice clip!
Where did you get it from? I mean which movie?
Yes, the sound is a bit funny.... he is very good at playing - even stumbling doesn't affect his sound. Smile

I don't recognise the tune either...
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Perry Yung
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 17:58    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Thanks for sharing Johnny!
Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
That's really nice. The playing is a bit anachronistic but does anyone recognize the tune?


Yes, great tone. I feel like I know the player. When you say anachronistic, do you mean the tune in context with the period of the drama? It does sound a bit contemporary.

Kiku Day wrote:
Yes, the sound is a bit funny....

Do you mean funny Ha Ha? What I thought was funny was the incongruity between the prop flute and the recording flute. The prop flute looks longer, like a 2.2, where as I think the recording is on a 1.8. (but I think the art director did her research as some very old flutes are lacquered black). In any case, as a shakuhachi maker, the lament does resonant deeply.
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Last edited by Perry Yung on 2011-11-23, 18:03; edited 1 time in total
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Michael Komatsuzen
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 18:03    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

He has very steady tone while sobbing! Wink
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 20:46    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Perry Yung wrote:


Kiku Day wrote:
Yes, the sound is a bit funny....

Do you mean funny Ha Ha? What I thought was funny was the incongruity between the prop flute and the recording flute. The prop flute looks longer, like a 2.2, where as I think the recording is on a 1.8. (but I think the art director did her research as some very old flutes are lacquered black). In any case, as a shakuhachi maker, the lament does resonant deeply.


Mmmm.. perhaps not funny in the sense of hahaha.... but like " Hey that flute + the state of being of the guy sobbing + the way the voice was recorded in comparison with the flute recording - it was... strange"! Perhaps strange is more suitable to describe what I meant. Too much traveling has made everything I wrote today quite simplistic in wording.

When the flute playing began - I actually thought the monk was walking away and a sound track began... but hen I realised when I got glimpses of the root end that it was him playing.

The sound quality of the voice and flute were SO different. If you were making a CD you'd do something to make that change seem more "natural".

I loved that the monk held the shakuhachi the correct way while he was standing and sobbing and then changed it to playing position.

Okay Very Happy Smile Okay Smile
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Johnny Filter
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 21:00    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Here's a 4 minute song from Komuso Aoki Tanzaemon circa 1604, produced for this beautifully filmed movie 360 years later.

41 MB file

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25980568/Aoki Tanzaemon.wmv
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 21:22    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

You are keeping us sitting on pins and needles.... Smile
Is it this one: 子連れ狼 三途の川の乳母車?


Last edited by Kiku Day on 2011-11-24, 07:48; edited 1 time in total
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Johnny Filter
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PostPosted: 2011-11-23, 22:56    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

子連れ狼 三途の川の乳母車 was made in the early 70's.

This 1964 movie director's name is Spit Out Dreams.



Bonus points: Who was the shakuhachi player he recorded for this 1964 classic?
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 03:02    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Perry Yung wrote:


Yes, great tone. I feel like I know the player. When you say anachronistic, do you mean the tune in context with the period of the drama? It does sound a bit contemporary.


Sounds dokyoku to me but not Yokoyama because there is minimal vibrato. I just meant it sounded like it was not from 400 years ago and anyway they did not play long flutes back then.
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 08:15    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

So the film is made by Uchida Tomu (内田 吐夢 1898 - 1970)
and is called 一乗寺の決斗 translated as MIYAMOTO MUSASHI IV: DUEL AT ICHIJYO-JI
You can find it here: http://mubi.com/films/miyamoto-musashi-iv-duel-at-ichijyo-ji-temple

The protagonist of the film is Miyamoto Musashi (宮本 武蔵 c. 1584 – 1645)... but that is not the komusō? Since there seems to be no connection to Miyamoto and shakuhachi if reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi

On the net I found the sound track of Miyamoto Musashi:
行雲流水(Koun-Ryusui)「鈴慕」より/沢庵和尚のテーマ (http://www.bk1.jp/product/80323784)
So... Koun Ryūsui: Reibo???? But Koun Ryūsui is a saying... hmmmmm.... Or has somebody taken up that saying as his name? Just like "Spit out dreams" isn't the film director's real name (but a good name!). I can't figure out the player.... nor the piece...

Fun to play private detective!
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Ba
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 08:44    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Maybe it is Kyushu style (Itchoken Temple)...
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 08:49    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
Perry Yung wrote:


Yes, great tone. I feel like I know the player. When you say anachronistic, do you mean the tune in context with the period of the drama? It does sound a bit contemporary.


Sounds dokyoku to me but not Yokoyama because there is minimal vibrato. I just meant it sounded like it was not from 400 years ago and anyway they did not play long flutes back then.



The intervals sound modern, Western influenced. He plays the gentler, more elegant koro-koro which is traditionally Kinko. An older figure played in Taizan ha, horo-horo, is played with the 4 hole fully closed and the 5 hole fully open sounds noisier. This player does not sound like he is playing the older figure. Very nice playing, but I would bet on a modern made instrument by a more modern styled player.

I like the black matte urushi coating on the shakuhachi (a 2.2?) and the komuso's ragged rakusu slung over his shoulder.

To the point of longer flutes, John Singer has old Edo Period 2.6 and 2.2 flutes on his gallery at http://www.zenflute.com/gallery.html.
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 15:24    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Yes, Uchida Tomu, nearly the equal of Kurosawa or Ozu in Japanese cinema history, but still very relatively unknown in the West. The samurai in red, white and black is antagonist Sasaki Kojiro. How difficult to play for an audience with a sword who likes to use it.

In this third clip, the last appearance of Aoki Tanzaemon as Komuso in the Musashi Pentology, Musashi Miyamoto recognizes the Komuso as his former military adversary, and the father of the abandoned boy Jotaro, now the swordsman's only student. Aoki uses a fan to receive the alms from the innkeeper, a nice touch.


20 MB clip

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/25980568/Fan as Bowl.wmv

Happy hunting for the name of the actual player!

For this Thanksgiving Day, I'm grateful to all for your creative charm, wit, humor and instruction. And Perry, for your hard work that opens the gate for so many! Crying or Very sad = Surprised X Surprised (tears of surprised joy round up?)
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-24, 15:57    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

x moran wrote:

To the point of longer flutes, John Singer has old Edo Period 2.6 and 2.2 flutes on his gallery at http://www.zenflute.com/gallery.html.


The one he's playing in the movie. visually I mean, is much thicker than the 2.7 John has on the site (now in my possession). The flute in the movie looks quite appealing.
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