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17th Century Komuso's Lament
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Perry Yung
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PostPosted: 2011-11-25, 04:10    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Johnny Filter wrote:

For this Thanksgiving Day, I'm grateful to all for your creative charm, wit, humor and instruction. And Perry, for your hard work that opens the gate for so many! Crying or Very sad = Surprised X Surprised (tears of surprised joy round up?)


Happy Thanksgiving to you too! Question of the day, "How does one know when a shakuhachi is done?"



All joking aside, teaching shakuhachi making is a responsibility I do not take lightly. I'll be teaching at Washington College (MD) this Tuesday 5 - 8pm. It's closed to the public but those in the area not enrolled in the college may be able to observe. My door is always open to anyone who wants to learn. Thanks Johnny.


Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
Sounds dokyoku to me but not Yokoyama because there is minimal vibrato. I just meant it sounded like it was not from 400 years ago and anyway they did not play long flutes back then.


x moran wrote:
The intervals sound modern, Western influenced. He plays the gentler, more elegant koro-koro which is traditionally Kinko. An older figure played in Taizan ha, horo-horo, is played with the 4 hole fully closed and the 5 hole fully open sounds noisier. This player does not sound like he is playing the older figure. Very nice playing, but I would bet on a modern made instrument by a more modern styled player.


I remember reading somewhere that Yokoyama said, and I'm paraphrasing here, that he was glad he studied different shakuhachi styles as that allowed him to play music more freely when it was required.
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Koji Matsunobu
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PostPosted: 2011-11-25, 17:21    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

The player was probably Horii Kojiro (堀井小二郎), a composer, shakuhachi player, and a grand son of Fukuzawa Yukichi (the guy on the 10000 yen bill). The music director of the film was not Horii but there is mentioning that Horii was in charge of the music. Horii promoted nine hole shakuhachi.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-25, 17:25    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Here he is: http://www.komuso.com/people/people.pl?person=1194
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2011-11-25, 17:53    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Cool! Thanks Koji! Looking at the list on komuso.com that Brian linked to - Horii Kojiro seems to be a real shin-nihon'ongaku generation.
Do ou agree Johnny?
What fun Thanks Giving detection work there!!!
More of that!
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Johnny Filter
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PostPosted: 2011-11-25, 22:49    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Who ?

The one who is playing it. You'll know when you see him.

When do I meet you then ?

Jotaro, listen well.
That gate will decide my life or death.
Who knows if I can meet you ever again.


I don't want that !

You are a samurai !
Go see that shakuhachi player.
If I live, I shall go to see you with him.


Sub-titled exchange between Musashi and Jotaro

The Music Director is Kosugi Taichiro, who composed music for over 60 films, some for the Zatoichi films (of which only one track in over 25 films' soundtracks included the shakuhachi) and some of the Sleepy Eyes flicks...

Hai, Ichi-ban Matsunobu-san; you win the shakuhachi smoked turkey baster prize!
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 08:00    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Koji Matsunobu wrote:
The player was probably Horii Kojiro (堀井小二郎), a composer, shakuhachi player, and a grand son of Fukuzawa Yukichi (the guy on the 10000 yen bill). The music director of the film was not Horii but there is mentioning that Horii was in charge of the music. Horii promoted nine hole shakuhachi.


So the $64,000 question is, Matsunobu-san: Are there any recordings of Horii Kojiro outside of this film for us to hear?

Thanks for identifying this master for us!
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 08:06    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
x moran wrote:

To the point of longer flutes, John Singer has old Edo Period 2.6 and 2.2 flutes on his gallery at http://www.zenflute.com/gallery.html.


The one he's playing in the movie. visually I mean, is much thicker than the 2.7 John has on the site (now in my possession). The flute in the movie looks quite appealing.


Yes, it is a good looking instrument, but might it also be a well-made stage shakuhachi? It looks too big for a 1.8. I clock in the playing in the soundtrack as being on a 1.8. Either that actor is quite diminutive or that's a 2.0 or longer shakuhachi ... or both. Very Happy
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 08:17    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

x moran wrote:


So the $64,000 question is, Matsunobu-san: Are there any recordings of Horii Kojiro outside of this film for us to hear?

Thanks for identifying this master for us!


If you look at the komuso.com article there are samples.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 14:37    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

The komuso.com article lists Horii Kojiro's compositions but doesn't provide sound samples of his playing. There is an online reference to his being a member of the Uyeda Ryu.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 18:07    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

These ryu affiliations seem to be more amorphous than we tend to think. Ueda/Tozan/Myoan all seem to blend into each other.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2011-11-27, 19:57    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
These ryu affiliations seem to be more amorphous than we tend to think.


I suppose our sense of a clear outline between schools may be the result of those accounts we sometimes read about the bias, intolerance, and serious bad blood among some members of shakuhachi schools toward schools other than their own. I remember Justin Senryu saying that when in Japan it was best not to get involved in conversations with some teachers about other schools, even describing certain of their views as racist, which does suggest a rather strictly divided state of affairs. Hells Angels and The Mongol Nation sans wheels.
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2011-11-28, 04:20    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:


If you look at the komuso.com article there are samples.


I can tell you didn't try to listen to any of the links on that page. Idea Idea Idea
No audio attached to his compositions, just a page for each link explaining that they are modern compositions. No further information, no audio, do not past go, spend the night in jail. Bannir
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x moran
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PostPosted: 2011-11-28, 04:49    Post subject: 17th Century Komuso's Lament Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
These ryu affiliations seem to be more amorphous than we tend to think. Ueda/Tozan/Myoan all seem to blend into each other.

Rick Riekert wrote:
The komuso.com article lists Horii Kojiro's compositions but doesn't provide sound samples of his playing. There is an online reference to his being a member of the Uyeda Ryu.

No birth year on komuso.com either. No place of origin.

(My teacher tells me that Kansai region music tends to be simple and elegant. Myoan-ji Temple is in in Kyoto in the Kansai region. Nakao Tozan was born in what is now Hirakata City in Osaka Prefecture in the Kansai region. Ueda Hōdō, a former Tozan member and founder of Ueda Ryu is from the Kansai region as well.)

I'd love to hear more of Horii Kojiro's playing and/or his compositions played by others.
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