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One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition"
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Dietmar IPu Herriger
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PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 12:34    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

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This is a short text that started an intense discussion on facebook...

One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition":

Yesterday I read the post of someone taking part in
The International Shakuhachi Competition in Kyoto.

The word competition struck me…
to compare…. better, faster , higher.. number 1 …the best… looser… a wide field of thoughts.

I think … “there is something wrong, badly wrong.”
the world of shakuhachi, as I know it, doesn´t know this word and idea of competition.
exactly the opposite idea is basic in zen mind:
the end of black-white / good-bad / high-low etc.

just a little story:
more than 20 years ago I took part in the annual Shakuhachi-kai of Icchouken Temple in Fukuoka.
more than 30 players met and played in the hondo of the temple.
an old man (over 70 in age) sat down in front of the shrine, took out his long flute (about 2.3 shaku) and played a 10 minute tune….
there was no sound, only hissing and whistles… but in the very end, the last line , full and deep sounding notes…
many years later I realized that this man thought me one of the most important lessons about shakuhachi:
the shakuhachi is a true and honest mirror which can not be betrayed.

this old man played the whole piece, listened to it –even without sound- and everyone heard it too… in his way, he was honest as one ever could be.
the shakuhachi gives me the chance to be honest, to be here and now. every sound is now and true.

for me, the idea of “Competition” is lightyears away from the spirit this music came from some hundred years ago.
I´m deeply thankfull to my master for giving me the chance to feel this spirit of zen-shakuhachi ….
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-09, 15:36    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Good one Dietmar. And then this followed:

Bill O'Connor: Thank you Dietmar, I fully agree with you! I have been appalled by the competitive side of international shakuhachi for many years.

Bill O'Connor: Music is not a competitive sport.

Dietmar Herriger: exactly!

Justin Senryu Williams: Hi Dietmar, you may be referring to my post. I withdrew from that competition for several reasons and will not be going to Japan. However, for me the competition was a positive thing. Since I was planning to go to the festival in Kyoto, I entered the competition (which is actually not part of the festival but a separate event at the same time as the festival) because qualifying would mean receiving $500 towards travelling expenses. Great! ............ I qualified, but since I am not going now, I will not receive that, though had I gone, that would have been a good help for me. ........ It was for the same reason that I entered the competition in the last festival, Australia 2008. I hesitated to enter that, because I had no interest at all for competitions, similar to your opinion. However, as a new professional shakuhachi maker at that time, it was important to present my instruments at that festival. Entering the competition was just a tool for that, to pay my way there. It was an opportunity. However, when I was there in Australia, I gained a good appreciation for the event. It was clear that that competition, which was for only under 40's, was to promote the younger generation of players. It is very difficult to live as a professional musician, especially in the conservative world of Japan, so this was a way of introducing the good young players to the wider shakuhachi world. When I realised that, I realised the kind motivation behind the competition. And for me, the most important thing in Buddhism is kindness. Also critical to the eightfold path is "Right Livelihood", and I believe that being a musician can be a very good and ethical way to make a living. ................ So, this all fits together, encouraging young players in this path they have chosen. Personally, I did not feel any competitiveness, and to be honest I did not even practice until the night before (to the dismay of my teacher!) since I was so busy tending to my instruments which I had to present there. So, it was a wholly pleasant experience. ............... As for this year, it is a different story somewhat, being open to any players, pros and non-pros, and any age. Still, it can help stimulate interest in shakuhachi music, and also there is another aspect which is the element of pushing the level of skill. I see the possibly negative side, of course - I am not fond of competitiveness, and egos can become swollen or encouraged in that. But, on the other hand, I feel there can be something gained if ones attitude remains correct. Sometimes such circumstances can encourage us to refine our technique, polish our skills, work on all those mistakes we keep on making but never bother to spend the proper time to correct. I feel the same with preparing for any performance, and even as students, the annual benkyoukai can have a similar encouraging effect. ............. Some people say that with shakuhachi, technique is not important. Some people even say that 'it is not music, it is meditation'. Well, personally I do not think that that is very 'zen'. If you look at other zen arts, there is a great level of refinement and precision. I deeply admire that precision, that attention to detail. So why should this be any different with shakuhachi? Of course there is the danger of becoming 'mechanical', only paying attention to technique. But this danger is also found in tea ceremony, archery, other martial arts and even Western music or arts. ............. I feel best when encountering a combination of both technical mastery and spiritual depth. Admittedly, some activities concentrate more on one aspect than the other, so perhaps it is up to us to make sure that we are in or aiming for an appropriate balance. ......... Interestingly, in Japan some of the most open-hearted people I have met were superb musicians with great technical skill and not overtly religious, and some of the most closed-minded selfish people had very poor technique and even looked down on technical musical training, while being overtly religious. While I do not think that technical training necessarily leads to an open heart, I do find this observation particularly interesting. I feel that the spirituality of shakuhachi is not necessarily found in those selling it. I also encourage spiritually inclined people to find a genuine spiritual master from whom to learn. And, at the same time, I feel that serious technical study can be a good thing to bring onto our spiritual paths, encouraging concentration, refined attention to detail, equanimity in the face of the difficulties of learning, and, of course, patience. So, so long as competition is not harming anyone, why not bring it onto the path!

Rodrigo Rodríguez: Hello Dietmar, I can undertand both parts, but I just wanted to say that in my humble opinion, for us young shakuhachi players is very important to parcipate in such events, or festivals and I think the competition just does not harm anyone, encourge players and young generations to strive themselves, as my shakuhachi colleague Justin said before in the post we are happy to receive invitation from Kurahashi sensei for perform in Kyoto on June 4th (this outside competition), and is really appreciated for us to be invited. I am agree that's music is not competitive sport but also the path of Truth or Spirituality is not a competitive tool . Maybe finding the balance is not easy job!

Dietmar Herriger: hi Justin, hi Rodrigo
thank you for you thoughtful answers
yes indeed: "finding the balance is not easy job!"
if you think that kind of competition will bring you further it´s the right thing for you to do. if it´s ,same like Chopin-competition for pianoplayers , kind of springboard for career as pro...you have to do it ...may be Kinkostile shakuhachi playing can be judged by a jury...
the way of playing I learned from my master is very different. behind every tone oshou-san played is endless space and tenderness.. and silence...
his teaching was very exactly on one hand, but not in a way of technical excellence and superb skill and speed etc.. but in expressing the feeling of a tune. Mu Kai ji is gray, Koku glowing red, Kyo Rei cristal clear. tell a story. play a whole tune, not notes. reach the end of the tune before you play the first note. the very fragile balance of sound and non-sound. show the silence around you when your last note is fading.
all this is for me very personal, and growing and changing with every year, these things can not be valued by a jury, and i don´t want it to be judged. when i practice a tune with my students, there is the point to say: very good so far, you know all now, next year we´ll play this tune again and you will reach more deep... the tune will become more and more your tune...
so far for now, i wish everybody taking part in the festival a great time an d unique experience, and every tone we all blow lets live on shakuhachi music..... the world needs it!
best regards from Berlin

Alcvin Ryuzen Ramos: Good ideas to contemplate. There is no meaning essentially in shakuhachi. It's really an empty space. We fill it with our own meaning, dreams, power, beauty. We're responsible for our own Path. Evolution/de-evolution, war and peace of shakuhachi...it's all connected, relative, opportunities for us to grow as humans; a wonderful door into unique worlds of sound and spirit. Great to see that shakuhachi can encompass so many dimensions.

Joseph Pepe Danza: ‎...and never to forget the "thy shall not judge". Whatever Path you choose is your own and we walk it in integrity, letting others walk their own. I am here in Kyoto and it's wonderful to see so many youth excited and interested in the Shakuhachi. Yes, they are a bit too loud and they may play too many notes, but they are having a great time and they have amazing discipline, and maturity will come in it's own time... inevitably... not to mention that they are setting the bar very high as far as technique goes...

Alcvin Ryuzen Ramos: Technique is wisdom ...but we must go through and beyond technique to understand the wisdom, to not merely think but to FEEL! Great to hear you're having an awesome time in Kyoto, Pepe!

Brian Ritchie: You guys should take this argument/discussion onto the forum. I agree that shakuhachi is not a sport, but I also think people should be free to do what they want with it, even if it means competing.

Uwe Walter: You are right,Ryuzen technique ist the art of making the bamboo roar an vibrate,the deep sounds and the sounds not heard,the art of beeing strong in pulling back,it is not the sound itself,it is the aftertaste,the echo the japanese like.the sound reverbing and the silent quack of a frog or an ambulance from far.All participating part of the play.Complete freedom in the non action.To understand that it took me 30 years.I have played Take on the Tight rope ,walking up mount fuji and all the sacred mountains of japan,was arrested in El Salvador during the civil war,because they thought the shakuhachi was a gun and took 11 Komusos from japan to Ausschwitz to play for the tormented souls - but - no sound.

Uwe Walter: Ma,space and time.Complete freedom,that is what we are looking for or what?

Kiku Day: Yes, Dietmar Herriger, are you on the forum?

Dietmar Herriger Hi Kiku-san, I´m not on the forum until now, but if you think that the forum might be the right place to discuss, feel free to copy my post and the comments there...

James Long: It would be good to have more people on the forum, it's pretty dead on there...

Justin Senryu Williams: Personally speaking I don't have time these days for internet forums. Call me old fashioned by I find teaching one on one more productive. Great that it is there though, helping shakuhachi to be more accessible. As with Dietmar, I'm also fine with you guys sharing my comments on the forum if you like. Interesting topic! And Dietmar's comments on Kinko style could make a whole new topic too! For now I will resist the temptation ;-)

Kees de Fouw: Makes me wanna play Voodoo Chile on my neighbor's Stratocaster and Mesa Boogie amp

Kiku Day Dietmar: it will be nice if you came onto the forum.

Kiku Day www.shakuhachiforum.eu

ESS Shakuhachi Forum :: Practice, Culture and History of Japanese Bamboo Flute 尺八. A Project of the.
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Brian Ritchie It's hilarious that you guys are telling us on Facebook that you are not into the internet.
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De Fouw
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 10:52    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Hi,
maybe some of you saw I posted here yesterday.
Sorry for posting and then deleting. I'd just rather stay out of this discussion after all.
Best,
Kees
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 11:01    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

De Fouw, what you posted was interesting. Bummer that you deleted it. This is a forum and those were interesting thoughts. Sad Crying or Very sad Question Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 11:41    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

OK Tairaku if you think so, it went something like this Rolling Eyes Embarassed :

Dietmar mentions “the spirit this music came from some hundred years ago”
It might not be so obvious that shakuhachi music has one well defined spiritual origin.

Earlier Niklas Natt och Dag posted on the Forum about some interesting reading material in The Library:
-------------------------------------------------
Gunnar Jinmei Linder's doctoral thesis, Deconstructing Tradition in Japanese Music: A Study of Shakuhachi, Historical Authenticity and Transmission of Tradition, is now finished, and available for download through the portal of the University of Stockholm, at http://su.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?pid=diva2:488776&rvn=1

Abstract:
"In the present study I examine the vertical bamboo flute shakuhachi, as an example of how a tradition can be constructed. There are two main issues: the historical authenticity of the believed origins and development of the shakuhachi tradition, and how the transmission of this tradition is conducted.

The first main issue is concerned with how a legendary origin, probably constructed in the late seventeenth century, was disproved in early twentieth-century studies. According to this legendary origin, the shakuhachi was connected to Chan (Zen) Buddhism in ninth-century China. It was replaced by a nowadays commonly accepted theory of an indigenous origin, found in both Japanese and English language contemporary writings. I discuss the legend, constructed by the so-called komusō monks of the Edo period (1603–1867), and suggest an alternative explanation of how they became connected to other kinds of medieval monks, so-called boro and komosō. The primary sources relating to the boro and the komosō are discussed. My analyses indicate that the twentieth-century studies created a connection to the boro and komosō as assumed devout Buddhist monks, probably for socio-political reasons.

The second main issue concerns how the tradition is transmitted, and the constitutive elements of this transmission. Some Japanese studies discuss the notion of kata – fixed forms implicitly containing essential elements of the ‘tradition’ – as a special feature of Japanese arts. I investigate how transmission is conducted, and argue against the notion that the elements transmitted from teacher to student contain the essence of the tradition. I assert that the concept of fixed forms as a defining characteristic of Japanese traditional arts, should be modified to a more modest ‘character of the music’ on the level of individual transmitters. I discuss the elements that are transmitted, and investigate what it is that constitutes the ‘traditional’ aspects, if any, of this transmission.”
-----------------------
In Jinmei Linder’s dissertation Japan’s Living National Treasure Aoki Reibo is mentioned:

“Aoki Reibo II (b. 1935), head of the Reibo-kai guild of Kinko-ryu, regards honkyoku not as means for spiritual training, but as music. According to Lee, he views shakuhachi performers who stress the connection between honkyoku and Zen Buddhism as “spiritual charlatans”

Linder is referring to Dr. Riley Lee in his thesis.

There are lots of views / approaches out there.

Please note these are not my own opinions, just pointers. I hope everybody enjoys their music in whatever spirit it is played.

Cheers,
Kees
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 12:01    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Thanks Kees.

I usually think what's happening today and in the future is more important than what happened in the past but it's good to shed light on it!
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 16:01    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Dietmar IPu Herriger wrote:
The word competition struck me…
to compare…. better, faster , higher.. number 1 …the best… looser… a wide field of thoughts.


I never made any shakuhachi competitions (only exams), but I made a lot of flute competitions. I think the meaning you give to "competition" is somehow corrupted by the "spirit of competition" that is unfortunately given to mediated sport events. Indeed, if a musical competition has got this sense, it's not compatible with the idea I have of shakuhachi, but also classical music, art or life...

I "missed" a lot of flute competitions, but also "won" some of them. Sometimes I won a competition against the same candidates who played better than me at another competition one month before. In my opinion, winning a competition just means : "ok, you made a great performance today, because you practiced hard for that, you're on the right path, keep practicing". We do not judge a person, but a performance given at an instant T. You're not "the best", it just was the best performance that day, and there are reasons for that. Inversely, if you miss your competition, it doesn't mean you're the worst or that the winner is better than you in absolute terms ; it simply means "my performance was not good today (or was not well regarded by the jury), there are reasons for that, I have to think about that and find these reasons, it will allow me to increase".

This is what is (or what should be), for me, the spirit of sporting or musical competitions. It is compatible with my idea of the shakuhachi practicing, because it allows me to learn more about myself (humility, introspection, positive and negative emotions, relationship to others, search of my own personality...)
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 17:35    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Dietmar IPu Herriger wrote:

exactly the opposite idea is basic in zen mind:
the end of black-white / good-bad / high-low etc.

just a little story:
more than 20 years ago I took part in the annual Shakuhachi-kai of Icchouken Temple in Fukuoka.
more than 30 players met and played in the hondo of the temple.
an old man (over 70 in age) sat down in front of the shrine, took out his long flute (about 2.3 shaku) and played a 10 minute tune….
there was no sound, only hissing and whistles… but in the very end, the last line , full and deep sounding notes…
many years later I realized that this man thought me one of the most important lessons about shakuhachi:
the shakuhachi is a true and honest mirror which can not be betrayed.

this old man played the whole piece, listened to it –even without sound- and everyone heard it too… in his way, he was honest as one ever could be.
the shakuhachi gives me the chance to be honest, to be here and now. every sound is now and true.

for me, the idea of “Competition” is lightyears away from the spirit this music came from some hundred years ago.
I´m deeply thankfull to my master for giving me the chance to feel this spirit of zen-shakuhachi ….


That is a beautiful story about the gentleman playing mostly with no sound. Thank you for sharing it and your thoughts/feelings. The end of black-white, etc. reminds me of 塞翁失马 – Sai Weng Shi Ma, which is more of a "layman" story but I believe you would enjoy it. Is competition good or bad or opposite of meditation? Old Sai Weng would say, "Who knows?". It is up to the individual, how they experience it. This raises another question for me which is, why is technical skill on the shakuhachi sometimes not considered good for meditative practice or for looking inward?



Here's "Sai Weng Shi Ma":

There once was a simple farmer who lived and struggled alongside his neighbors and friends, trying to exist and fulfill a peaceful life. One day news arrived from far away, that his old loving father had died. His neighbors gathered to grieve, but the farmer simply said, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

In time relatives brought a very fine horse of great cost and fine breeding, left to the farmer by his father. All the villagers and neighbors gathered in delight with him to celebrate his good fortune, but he just said, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

One day the horse escaped into the hills and when all the farmer's neighbors sympathized with the old man over his bad luck, the farmer replied, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

A week later the horse returned with a herd of wild horses from the hills and this time the neighbors congratulated the farmer on his good luck. His reply was, "Good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?"

Then, when the farmer's son was attempting to tame one of the wild horses, he fell off its back and broke his leg. Everyone thought this was very bad luck. Not the farmer, whose only reaction was, "Bad luck? Good luck? Who knows?"

Some weeks later the army marched into the village and conscripted every able-bodied youth they found there. When they saw the farmer's son with his broken leg they let him off. Now was that good luck? Bad luck? Who knows?
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 19:34    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Kees, thank you for reposting. I think the lesson is that we can not fix the past as we have simply not experienced it, and what we have experienced may even not be represented exactly because our memory doesn't work as exact data source anyway. Gunnar's thesis shed some interesting light on this!

Jean-François, I agree with you when it comes to what is competition... BUT when the organisers write like this (http://www.hogaku.com/index.html):

"第1回国際尺八コンクール 5月31日開催! = The First International Shakuhachi Competition. Deadline 31 May
3/5の予選結果(日本語版)(英語版) = 31 May. Results of preliminary contest (in Japanese) (In English)
5/31本選で「世界一」が決定!" = 31 May. In the finals "The World's no. 1" will be determined

Then already from the beginning that kind of spirit you are speaking of has left the competition.... or at least maybe....

I am not coming with a personal view point whether competition is good or bad. But I agree with Jean-François on what a music competition might be... but the advertisement on the Hōgaku Journal website says the above...

Anyway, I enjoyed the listen at the competition! Okay


Last edited by Kiku Day on 2012-06-10, 20:44; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 20:41    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Shocked I didn't know the words of the organizers...
Indeed, we must find a better formulation if we decide to organize a competition for WSF2016 ! Okay
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PostPosted: 2012-06-10, 20:42    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

JF Lagrost wrote:
Shocked I didn't know the words of the organizers...
Indeed, we must find a better formulation if we decide to organize a competition for WSF2016 ! Okay


AGREE on that one!!!!!
Although Hōgaku Journal was the main organiser of the competition and not the WSF16 organisers. But YES! IF there will be a competition in Europe, we need to formulate that better for sure.
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PostPosted: 2012-06-11, 06:05    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

I guess the thing about this competition under discussion is that they set a certain piece or choice of pieces all the competitors had to play. Since it would not be fair to have a piece associated with a particular ryu such as Tozan, Kinko, Myoan because it would give members of those ryu advantage, they set some contemporary pieces. Which seems a silly way to decide "World's Number 1" since that is not shakuhachi music per se. Then I assume they have certain criteria, but I'm not sure about that or what those criteria might be.

I think it would be more fun and healthier just to have a bunch of competitors perform whatever they want, a broad panel of judges, and judges score based on how much they enjoyed it. That's subjective, but the idea that there are objective ways of judging shakuhachi is truly absurd.

Also they picked the competitors from recordings which is an errant way of doing things.

Basically I agree with Dietmar's original position, this is not what shakuhachi is about. On the other hand having goals is a good way of improving your playing, so I don't see the harm in participating as long as you realise it's totally ridiculous. I heard some winners of similar previous competitions took their wins seriously and it went to their heads, causing themselves and those around them distress. Mort de Rire
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PostPosted: 2012-06-11, 13:21    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
I don't see the harm in participating as long as you realise it's totally ridiculous. Mort de Rire

Right on the money, Brian... keep your sense of humor, stretch your limits and have fun with it. If you are going to take it seriously, don't even bother... which doesn't mean you won't take your playing seriously... quite the opposite... if you take your playing seriously a little exercise such as this won't affect you one way or another.
Jean Francoise's views on "competition" seem extremely healthy. One thing, though... I sure wouldn't want to put myself in a judges shoes!... as Brian said well... truly absurd...
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PostPosted: 2012-06-11, 17:43    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Ha Ha! This image reminded me of this discussion about Shakuhachi Competition:
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PostPosted: 2012-06-11, 18:03    Post subject: One thought about "Shakuhachi Competition" Reply with quote

Spot on! Smile
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