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Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing
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Jam
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PostPosted: 2012-06-18, 22:39    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
When I played at the WSF a few weeks ago I was also able to get a video/audio recording. I've only been playing for about 5 years, all that time with a teacher, so I am a bit reluctant to upload footage of myself. At the time I thought the performance went ok but the more I listen to the recordings the more holes I pick in it.

I've been taught to record myself playing, to listen back to and find holes in my playing, but I'm baffled as to why so many amateur players upload audio/video of themselves playing to youtube?

I get the feeling that people who have taught themselves are putting up videos to show others their achievements, and in their way that is obviously very commendable, but I wonder whether it's because those of us who have teachers don't want to put something up in case it makes one's teacher look bad?

I'm not having a go at anyone, I'm just thinking out loud, as it were, and they just keep cropping up!
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 04:01    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

I think that there is a big gulf between the mindset of those who have teachers and those who do not, that results, in part, videos of themselves. I think that for the most part those who have teachers have a model to which they are comparing themselves, and so, are constantly "in check"- at least to some degree. For those who do not- the sky is the limit- in a sense.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 04:51    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

In the past there were record companies, television networks and the like who were gatekeepers. Now there are no gatekeepers blocking free expression. Anybody can put anything up for public viewing and listening. It's the modern world. Would you rather go back to the old ways? Then you cede decision making to corporate entities rather than the whims of individuals. Which is worse? Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Idea Okay

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But no:

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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 05:13    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

In academic library-land recent emphasis is on "information literacy", which entails evaluating the source that you are looking at. This evaluation is not necessarily intuitive and in general needs to be taught. Evaluating the source of shakuhachi videos, becoming shakuhachi-literate, might be the next step. But who wants to sign up for THAT course? Neutral

Brian, I think that you made the point that the number of great players in the west has remained more or less constant over the past many years. Does that perspective benefit this investigation any? i.e. no harm no foul?

Just thoughts....
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 05:20    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Hi Michael,

There are a lot of people getting interested in shakuhachi in the west but my impression (totally subjective) is that not a lot of them are developing up to the level of the first crop (i.e. Ralph Samuelson, John Singer, David Wheeler, etc.). I could be wrong about that though...........

But I don't know what that has to do with people posting their essentially home videos. It's probably the same for shakuhachi as it is for dancing, sex, sports or every other thing that people might post videos of.

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x moran
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 06:37    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Out of that 'first crop', how many of those players were conversant, if not fluent in Japanese language? And how many of them spent more than just a few months in Japan with their principal teacher?

... And I don't know if I'd want to go back to the old days of money-and-influence brokered media, but I would like to see, as Michael suggests, more general aspiration towards artistic/information literacy. That may take a lot more time and thousands of more mediocre artistic products before aspiring Digital Age artists begin to ask themselves, "Is there _more_ I can do with this?"
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 09:22    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

OK we live in an age where great artists, professional musicians, can put their product up on the internet for paid download and there are no or few takers. People either ignore, download illegally, or look at or listen to the bootleg work from those artists on youtube or wherever.

So why complain when people put stuff up on youtube that is worthless when the price paid to look at it is $0? That seems more appropriate than what I mention above.

Disclaimer Arrow I am a professional musician.

About the relative competence of the new shakuhachi performers in the West and the older batch. It probably just a function of the previous obscurity of the instrument. Therefore people who wanted to get into it would be dedicated. To learn or even get one was much more difficult 30-40 years ago. Now the instrument and starting to play is readily accessible but the knowledge is still rare.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 11:20    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

I understand very well what you are saying, Jam. And everybody else - in fact. And yes I do also see some attitude difference in people who learn from teachers and people who doesn't - but not always.

I think we have to look at such a place as Youtube as "the fun marketplace where everybody do what they want and you have fun with what you can have fun with watching". It is democratic... in fact anarchistic.... there is great stuff mixed with the worst and much more in between these two...

The danger is of course the confusion, when is something good? Would people go to a "quack" and begin learning because he/she sounds convincing on Youtube? Well... that is just how the Internet is and we have to get used to it.... and if you are genuinely interested, you'd probably look carefully and perhaps ask on the forum or something like that...

I am not saying I don't some times think to myself that this or this person on Youtube should shave waited quite a few years before uploading a video.... but that is life and I try to look at Youtube as FUN! We can do what we want! Also finding the good stuff and listening to it!
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 18:05    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

All good points.

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
There are a lot of people getting interested in shakuhachi in the west but my impression (totally subjective) is that not a lot of them are developing up to the level of the first crop (i.e. Ralph Samuelson, John Singer, David Wheeler, etc.). I could be wrong about that though...........

But I don't know what that has to do with people posting their essentially home videos. It's probably the same for shakuhachi as it is for dancing, sex, sports or every other thing that people might post videos of.


I had been thinking (and not made it clear- no surprise) that all the videos of people playing after 3 months of experience, or a year, as Jam sppoke of might serve as poor examples for those learning, wanting to learn, etc. In general, the content of videos is in fact information for the youtube audience. What are people getting from it? If the number of great players had not at least decreased, then the amount of not-so-master-level information and playing demonstrated on youtube may not be an issue in the larger scope of the health of "shakuhahci in the age of youtube" - i.e. people who are dedicated still find a way.
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Jarle Jivanmukta
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 20:39    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Being a beginner, and mostly playing alone, I have found it quite fun to sometimes tubesurf and listen to various videos of shakuhachi.
What I hear and see now, is very different to what I saw and heard two years ago. It tells me how much I have learned. It is in a kind way nice to see other struggle or make mistakes that I recognice from my playing. Often it is flat.

Lets say 3% of the time I listen to amateurs, 90 % of the time I listen to the masters, and 7% of the time I listen to obscure indie recordings of Neptune improvising or people playing Kyorei on extremely long Shakuhachis :-)

I think it is beautiful how YouTube can let anyone, anywhere, publish their creation whatever that might be, and good that people are brave to do so. Maybe they have that call to perform, internet is one way. I don't care about the motive of the player, as long as I enjoy it. If I don't enjoy, I don't listen and don't care.b

But I cannot recall anywhere that I felt much ego or showing of on shakuhachi recordings. Maybe thats more common with other instruments.

I will be happy to see more beginners on YouTube or soundcloud. I plan to record something myself, but time is limited. In local music schools they will have students concerts, solitary shaku players don't have that. Maybe posting and commenting online can fill something of that role. We have spoken about that on the Chikuzenforum, and several of us are subscribing to each others recordings on soundcloud. Unfortunately I haven't managed to be as active as I would like.

Ok, blabla- just some thoughts :-)
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Kenny
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PostPosted: 2012-06-19, 21:08    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

m a doherty wrote:

I had been thinking (and not made it clear- no surprise) that all the videos of people playing after 3 months of experience, or a year, as Jam sppoke of might serve as poor examples for those learning, wanting to learn, etc. In general, the content of videos is in fact information for the youtube audience. What are people getting from it?


Do you mean the listeners or the posters? Perhaps I don't understand your point but I find watching videos of beginners playing to be fascinating. Not having easy access to a teacher (i.e. distance, free time and an unnatural loathing of skype (which perhaps comes from working in IT)) it gives me a chance to see how someone else with my experience is playing. It keeps me motivated. When I'd been playing for three months I would look for other complete beginners. Now after a year I like to find people that have posted themselves playing for a similar length of time. I know I can always turn to my CD/mp3 collection when I want to hear it played professionally.

Edit number 3 for clarity: I think Jarle above makes a clearer overall point.

Kenny
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Jam
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PostPosted: 2012-06-20, 01:40    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Seems like I opened a can of worms with my little rant!

I can see the merit of people recording to gauge their own progress, and I can imagine if you are unable to take lessons or have a teacher then it's good to have the other videos to compare to. I mean no offence to those who don't have a teacher and put videos of themselves on youtube playing their "compositions". I just don't see why they feel the need to!

Perhaps I'm just a grumpy young man Smile .
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CharlesKoeppen
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PostPosted: 2012-06-20, 05:18    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Jam wrote:
I just don't see why they feel the need to!


For me, guilty of it just a year or so ago and earlier, it is sort of like playing in the park, but internet users are strolling about and will be the audience rather an individual enjoying a park. Of course, just as some people complain if a park, street, or subway performer isn't so good, some people complain if a youtube performer isn't so good.

Personally, I find street performers interesting and are what the musical experience is about, they demonstrate that any individual who has the ambition can enjoy it even if the results of recording aren't up to the quality of a shakuhachi professional with state of the art recording technology. In disliking them one is essentially censoring music availability to only music produced commercially, so please, be careful of what you wish for.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-06-20, 05:44    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Jam, you were at the festival, so you saw that Kurahashi Sensei's curatorial approach was in itself utterly egalitarian and open. Looks like anyone who wanted to perform, did. So posting your or anybody's performance would just be an extension of the festival itself.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2012-06-20, 07:15    Post subject: Uploading recordings/videos of yourself playing Reply with quote

Jam wrote:
Seems like I opened a can of worms with my little rant!


That's great, Jam. it is important to discuss and reflect on subjects like the one you have brought up. So yes more of that! The forum is a space to discuss these matters. Okay
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