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Half tones in kyorei
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2012-12-28, 15:04    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

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Kel, yes there is re no chu no meri though I've never come across chi no chu no meri, however there is ri no chu no meri and hi no chu no meri.
As follows (if I'm leaving anything out, please fill in the blanks)
Otsu
ro no dai meri
ro no meri
ro
tsu no dai meri
tsu no meri
tsu no chu no meri
tsu
re no meri
re no chu no meri
re
u no dai meri
u
chi no meri
chi
ri no meri
ri no chu no meri
ri
go no hi no meri
go no hi no chu no meri
ro
Everything corresponds in kan except there is san no u between chi and hi no meri
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Karmajampa
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PostPosted: 2012-12-28, 20:59    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

That's great Jeff, thanks.
My study for the day.
At a glance, are we working with semi-tones, where notes of the same pitch have different names as timbre differs and method of producing that note differs ?
The Math of Sound might suggest we are !

Kel.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-12-28, 21:56    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

Yes Kel, one of the main differences between Japanese and Western music is that notes of the same pitch have different names based on their tone and fingering. In western music it's organized by pitch alone.
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Karmajampa
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PostPosted: 2012-12-28, 23:00    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

Tairaku,
That, I think, is a really good point for new players to be aware of, fundamental to the greater picture and a good lead out of the Western conditioning. Which, I can't think of an instrument that matches.
For example, if you play a 'C' on a guitar on one string, then play the same 'C' on a lower string, it is still called 'C' though the timbre differs.
Small point, but..........Composers would feel the difference.

Kel.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 11:52    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

Karmajampa wrote:
Composers would feel the difference.


Frequently they don't. They write for "notes" instead of sounds, and that's why so much contemporary music is boring.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 12:49    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

Brian, I agree with the first part of your statement, but I'm not sure about the latter part. I think that it's less that contemporary music is boring because it's written for 'notes' than many modern composers aren't shakuhachi players and don't thoroughly understand the nuances of the instrument. Techniques like muraiki and tamane are often written into contemporary music because they are so well known, but coloration due to fingering changes is less known and difficult to write for. Certainly, modern composers could develop their own dynamic marks, and often do, but one of the big problems is that their is no convention which often leaves composers to trust 'adding a shakuhachi feel' to the player's instinct.
That being said, do you think that if composers wrote with the idiosyncrasies of the shakuhachi in mind, their music would be any less boring?
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Karmajampa
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 13:13    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

I recall Stan Richardson describing possible interpretations of Temuke scores, with all those little marks added here and there,. They were apparently intended to indicate playing dynamics but so long ago no-one was sure what they actually meant.

I think Brian may be referring to music in general, not just shakuhachi, but then again, tightening the parameters to shakuhachi Conpositions may be more pertinent.
Kel.
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 13:15    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

I'm not only talking about shakuhachi music. They are mostly keyboard players writing on computers. Frequently the stuff doesn't even match the register of the instruments they're writing for. And it's mostly based on the 12 note scale, which is obsolete.
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Karmajampa
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 13:34    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
I'm not only talking about shakuhachi music. They are mostly keyboard players writing on computers. Frequently the stuff doesn't even match the register of the instruments they're writing for. And it's mostly based on the 12 note scale, which is obsolete.





It was novel for a while, now, when you have to use your Breath, we never breathe the same way twice.......unless you are hooked up to a machine.

Kel.
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JF Lagrost
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PostPosted: 2012-12-29, 16:16    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei Reply with quote

There are also some very good contemporary music written for Western wind instruments, in which the composer indicates fingerings according to the tone color to be obtained. But yes, Western notation is not originally designed in this spirit, and these scores are more difficult to read than shakuhachi notations.
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PostPosted: Today at 01:02    Post subject: Half tones in kyorei

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