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Wondering About Busking
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 00:04    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

PublicitéSupprimer les publicités ?
Depressing I understood, it was the:

SUICIDAL

That got me going. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Okay
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Lorka
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 02:45    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

ok ,ok. No suicide, I promise. Just don't make me listen to recordings of kyorei played backwards. Hmmm, actually, maybe that would be kind of cool
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CharlesKoeppen
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 11:57    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Brian Tairaku Ritchie wrote:
Depressing I understood, it was the:

SUICIDAL

That got me going. Rolling Eyes Evil or Very Mad Okay


I realize this has gone in the direction of humor, but are any of the pieces supposed to be depressing? As part of the path of zen or something? Or is the "depressing" a misinterpretation. Some European composers have managed it, but it's not very often I find a piece in the 120 beat per minute range as what I'd call beautiful.
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De Fouw
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 15:41    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

No Charles, no humor.
What is meant are pieces such as Harakiri Sugagaki and Seppuku no Kyoku.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 18:50    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

CharlesKoeppen wrote:
For example, look at the definition for pavane: It is a "stately" dance. Then look at the definition of "stately":"majestic, imposing in magnificence, elegance... dignified". But most uneducated, even if highly trained musicians and dancers, as well as the general public, would interpret it as sad.


I think Ravel’s “Pavane pour une infante défunte”, to cite one example, is usually considered a sad piece not because of the mood or emotion it evokes but simply because the title seems to suggest that the music ought to be sad. However, I don’t think one needs to be uneducated to interpret or characterize a work of art in a way that is not in keeping with the dictionary definition of the genre to which the work putatively belongs. I like to fancy that even the educated are capable of reacting genuinely to works of art in ways that are out of step with the OED.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 20:28    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

This reminds me of one incident where I was asked to come and play the shakuhachi at a retirement home for (rich) Jewish people in San Francisco. Most were sweet and loved it but there was this one lady who came up to me again and again during the time where I played and yelled: "You make me depressed!!! Play something cheerful!!!"
That was hard work! I tried my best, improvised, tried to play melodies she might know and like... nothing helped! She looked happy when the klezmer band took over... Phew!
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Lorka
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 21:18    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

You should have smacked her with the business end of a 2.9 jinashi for such rudeness. I can't believe she complained like that. The woman obviously has no class at all.
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Rick Riekert
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 21:56    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Lorka wrote:
You should have smacked her with the business end of a 2.9 jinashi for such rudeness.


After sentencing maybe Kiku could work on developing of whole new series of occasional compositions- Hoosgow Shinkyoku.
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chuck56
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PostPosted: 2013-01-22, 22:53    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Ok, so I've been away from my computer for a few days. It warms my heart to see how far my initial questioning has taken this topic.

Thanks to all for you suggestion, comments and laughter. Okay
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J. Danza
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PostPosted: 2013-01-23, 02:20    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Damn, Kiku!... maybe I should think twice about moving to Israel Smile
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2013-01-23, 10:40    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Pepe, I definitely think you should think twice about that. Instead I think you and Shakti should move to Kumamoto, start your yoga school branch here and get into this vibe. Nobody will come up to you and tell you that you depress them.
As for the question, are there any pieces that are meant to sound sad? I'm not sure that is the intention, but the sankyoku piece Zengetsu is what we might equate to a lament. It was written at the passing of the child of a certain Japanese aristocrat. Zengetsu means 'waning moon' . I find it to be a lovely, poetic piece played either ensemble or solo. I think that there are many pieces that are meant to evoke a certain sense of longing though. This is not necessarily a sad thing. Longing can be held in the heart as a kind of power. Aside from that, it's probably best (as a shakuhachi player) not to divorce the traditional music from its cultural context in trying to translate its intent. However, busking on the street or playing at a Jewish old folks home might be a completely different thing. Wink
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J. Danza
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PostPosted: 2013-01-23, 18:26    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Thanks, Jeff Very Happy ... Hopefully the move to Israel will give me more financial freedom so trips to Japan can become regular.
I totally agree with the term "longing" for the feeling that Shakuhachi evoked in me from the beginning. It felt like the voice of my Spirit longing to return Home... not sadness but more a beautiful melancholy (or melancholic beauty?)
I also like the idea of longing as a power. It reminds of the power in the poetry of Rumi when he speaks of the Beloved.
Jeff Cairns wrote:
Aside from that, it's probably best (as a shakuhachi player) not to divorce the traditional music from its cultural context in trying to translate its intent.

Not sure what you mean by that... (and I fear it may be one of those Forum Pandora's Boxes) Smile
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m a doherty
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PostPosted: 2013-01-23, 22:54    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

I have drawn tears from a crowd for a Tamuke I played once...
No one there knew enough about the shakuhachi for it to be sad for a terrible performance, so I assume it was because of the piece's lament-atious nature and not my playing.
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Jeff Cairns
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PostPosted: 2013-01-24, 01:37    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

Pepe, I completely agree with the analogy to Rumi's poetry.
...and what I meant was that we can and usually do judge anything according to what we know. That is okay, but equity in judgement sometimes means wearing the other person's shoes.
In 100 to 300 year old music that was born from the mind and heart of a person living in a culture very different from your own, it's possible that your current state of mind is in a very different
place than the originator's was. As such, you might interpret a sound to represent sadness when the originator intended resigned longing. In this world of 'I want it the way I want it and I want it now',
reflective consideration is at times at a premium. The answer may be, education.

Pandora's brow
on a south-east face
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knowshit
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PostPosted: 2013-01-24, 03:39    Post subject: Wondering About Busking Reply with quote

If my cat hears me laughing, does it know I'm happy?
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