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question about Kimigayo

 
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BeginnersMind0
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PostPosted: 2013-06-26, 02:14    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

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Hi, so i am just starting out on the Shakuhachi and am of course learning Kimigayo. The 14th note on my written version is marked as a tsu-meri but every version of this tune I have found on youtube (non shakuhachi versions) have the note played as a regular tsu (ie Bb versus B). How should I be playing this note? Thanks in advance!
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-06-26, 14:46    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

What size shakuhachi are you playing?
On a standard D shakuhachi tsu no meri is Eb.
And what note does your version of Kimigayo begin with?
Or alternatively, you can scan and upload the file Smile
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BeginnersMind0
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PostPosted: 2013-06-26, 20:15    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

whoops, I was comparing to a western notation version I found but it is in the key of "D". (my bad). My Kinko version actually starts on "re" (western "G"). So the 14th note is a tsu or tsu-meri (or tsu no meri?)("F" or "E" or ever Eb)? I am playing a 1.8. Thank you for your efforts to help!
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-06-27, 06:30    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Ok. If the notation tells you to begin on re, then there are no meri notes in Kimigayō.
The 14th note will be tsu (all the holes except hole 1 closed).
So you are right, no tsu no meri there! Smile

Good luck and have fun with it! Okay
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BeginnersMind0
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PostPosted: 2013-06-28, 21:45    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Thanks! i thought I was going crazy!
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Kishi Kiyokazu
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PostPosted: 2013-07-03, 13:58    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

BeginnersMind0-san,
I'm very glad to know your starting shakuhachi.
I sympathize your confusion about Kimigayo.
And I have read Kiku-san' answer.
But I think don't think you are wholly able to understand that note.

In conclusion, the 14th note is E(western).
So, you can get that note by "all the holes except hole 1 closed, and hole 2 slightly shaded with finger"
In Japanese E note is tsu-no-chu-meri(ツの中メリ)、or tsu-middle-meri
This is Kinko-style.
Even Japanese shakuhachi beginers often can't understand this note.
Because in Tozan-style this note(E) is written by "Tsu-meri",
and (E-flat by "small tus"). Confusing!

By the way, "slightly shading with finger" is called "Kazasi" in Japanese.
Cheer up your tring!
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I run Shakuhachi-playing-study-group(尺八吹奏研究会). I have been studying the shakuhachi and published a text book [尺八吹奏法Ⅱ]. I wish to share with pleasure of playing the shakuhachi with all of the ESS members.
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Kishi Kiyokazu
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PostPosted: 2013-07-03, 14:58    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

P.S
Sorry,the 7th line is wrong.
So, you can get that note by "all the holes except hole 1 closed, and hole 2 slightly shaded with finger"

Next line is correct.
So, you can get that note by "all the holes except hole 1 closed, and hole 1 slightly shaded with finger"
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I run Shakuhachi-playing-study-group(尺八吹奏研究会). I have been studying the shakuhachi and published a text book [尺八吹奏法Ⅱ]. I wish to share with pleasure of playing the shakuhachi with all of the ESS members.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-07-03, 16:43    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Oh... I have a version for shakuhachi that is just straight kari notes and assumed it was correct.
If there is a tsu-no-chū-meri... it is not so well suited for beginners as being thought of.
Oh well! Thanks for the correction. Smile
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No-sword
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PostPosted: 2013-07-04, 07:33    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Ease of playing isn't the reason "Kimi ga yo" comes first in many traditions, though -- it's a straight-up relic of Meiji-through-Showa nationalism. I met one player who told me he made a point of NOT teaching it to his students, telling them to skip it and going straight into Tulip or whatever, because he did not like the message he felt it sent.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-07-04, 07:41    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Personally, I would never teach it either.
I have this bad image from my mother, who used to turn the volume off the TV if Japan had one in some discipline at the Olympics or the like and Kimigayo was to be played... She would always be very negative about this song. Somehow that has followed me ever since. But I am sure it is fine for shakuhachi practice. Smile
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felix martens
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PostPosted: 2013-07-05, 18:23    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Sometimes during my practice I imagine myself in front of an audience in my local town, playing Kimigayo, with a visiting Japanese group, as a kind of challenge to play in public. I never gave it a thought but now.........
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Brian Tairaku Ritchie
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PostPosted: 2013-07-05, 21:21    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

Tsu chu meri is one of the easiest notes, yet causes so much confusion. This song is also perhaps a good song for Japanese to learn first, but not the easiest for non-Japanese to learn first.
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Kiku Day
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PostPosted: 2013-07-08, 19:25    Post subject: question about Kimigayo Reply with quote

felix martens wrote:
Sometimes during my practice I imagine myself in front of an audience in my local town, playing Kimigayo, with a visiting Japanese group, as a kind of challenge to play in public. I never gave it a thought but now.........


Don't worry about it! It is a nice imagery and probably the majority of Japanese people would appreciate you learning Kimigayō and on shakuhachi.
My suggestion is to try to learn it with a tuner so you get that tsu-no-chū-meri right. E it is! Smile

Good luck with it!
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BeginnersMind0
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PostPosted: 2013-07-20, 20:37    Post subject: Thank you all! Reply with quote

This has become a very interesting conversation! I appreciate all your input. So what is the difference between tsu-no-chu-meri, and tsu-chu-meri, and tsu-meri? Also, (in the case of this tune) how "bent" should this note be played? I have a tuner. About how many cents "flat" should the note appear on my tuner? Thank you!!!
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PostPosted: Today at 20:42    Post subject: question about Kimigayo

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